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zeugma
Since May 2, 1998
Flaws threaten Microsoft
GlobalTechnology.com ^ | Friday, Nov. 7, 2003 | Associated Press
Posted on 11/08/2003 11:34:09 PM PST by zeugma
 
The Wizard
Since Jun 3, 1998
It's greed that threatens Microsoft
I found out today that after paying hundreds of $$ for xp pro, that I cannot use it on more than one computer
IN MY OWN HOME
I now join the ever growing ranks of Americans who will never again buy a MS product.

41 posted on 11/11/2003 7:44:40 AM PST by The Wizard (Saddamocrats are enemies of America

 
 
 

Skip to comments.

Flaws threaten Microsoft
GlobalTechnology.com ^ | Friday, Nov. 7, 2003 | Associated Press

Posted on 11/08/2003 11:34:09 PM PST by zeugma

Flaws threaten Microsoft

SEATTLE — Microsoft Corp.'s offer this week of cash bounties for informants who help it collar virus-writers reflects more than just an escalation of the war on those who would exploit the dominant power in software.

The campaign reveals just how much of a threat to Microsoft's bottom line security flaws now represent.

When the Blaster worm hobbled hundreds of thousands of computers around the world in August — only the latest plague to exploit a flaw in Windows operating systems — it also hurt Microsoft's ability to book new contracts with corporate customers.

For the first time, it seemed, flaws in Microsoft's software were translating into flaws in the company's business model.

"It's now starting to move from being a problem that they used to hear anecdotally to a problem they can now measure the impact of," said Michael Cherry, an analyst with Directions on Microsoft, an independent research firm.

The cost of patching up Windows computers, for instance, is diverting money from tech budgets that might otherwise have been earmarked for new software contracts, he said.

In its latest quarterly results, Microsoft said revenue from multiyear contracts dropped $768-million (U.S.) from the previous quarter. The drop in so-called "deferred revenue" — money received for contracts that will be counted toward its earnings over time — was about $450-million lower than the company anticipated.

Some of that was due to overly optimistic projections, said chief financial officer John Connors. But another reason, he said, was that Microsoft's sales people were so busy helping corporate clients shore up their networks that they could not close new deals.

Even before the Blaster attack, security was gnawing at Microsoft's stature. It had been cited among the reasons that various government agencies in the United States and abroad have become more serious about adopting alternatives such as the open-source Linux operating system.

Security, simply put, is beginning to play a larger role in decisions about what software companies buy.

Boscov's department stores are in the process of switching from Microsoft software on many of its servers to Linux-based offerings provided by IBM Corp. Harry Roberts, chief information officer for Boscov's, a regional chain based in Reading, Pa., said cost was by far the biggest reason.

But the company also had been hit hard by the Nimda worm in 2001, causing about $50,000 in staff time to repair damage to the network, he said. "We do have a bad taste in our mouth."

Analysts say Microsoft's software is targeted most by hackers and virus writers because it is so prevalent. But that's of little consolation to customers angry about the persistent security concerns.

"When enterprises have these big problems, they're very leery," said John Pescatore, vice president for Internet security at the Gartner consulting firm. That wariness could prompt companies to delay software upgrades from every third to every fourth year, for example, a threat for Microsoft. "That's what kills software companies," he said.

After the Blaster attack, Microsoft issued bulletins for another five critical flaws in versions of Windows. And it was not the only Microsoft-centric Internet plague this year. The Slammer worm severely clogged on-line traffic in January.

Mr. Pescatore likened the recent problems to the situation two years ago, when the Code Red and Nimda viruses exploited flaws in Microsoft software. The network pain produced by the twin scourges prompted Microsoft chairman Bill Gates in January 2002 to identify security as the company's top priority.

Among the recent steps Microsoft has taken to improve security is its announcement that it will have a free update to its flagship Windows XP desktop operating system next year. The improvements are to include disabling certain features that can allow hacker break-ins. The upgrade, or service pack, will also include an improved firewall.

As it adjusts, the challenge for Microsoft has been to alter its mind-set — from an emphasis on winning new customers to the need to satisfy its now-huge existing customer base, said Joe Wilcox, an analyst with Jupiter Research.

"Microsoft needs to sit back and kind of rethink how to operate in more of a maintenance market," Mr. Wilcox said. "And what that really means is that customer satisfaction has to be the number one priority."



TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: BLASTER; CODERED1; CODERED2; COMPUTERSECURITY; ILOVEYOU; LINUX; MELISSA; MICROSOFT; NETWORKSECURITY; NIMDA; OPENSOURCE; SLAMMER; TROJANS; VIRUS; VIRUSES; WORMS
...reveals just how much of a threat to Microsoft's bottom line security flaws now represent.

For the first time, it seemed, flaws in Microsoft's software were translating into flaws in the company's business model.

About time.

1 posted on 11/08/2003 11:34:09 PM PST by zeugma

To: rdb3
Penguin Ping Please
2 posted on 11/08/2003 11:34:55 PM PST by zeugma (If you eat a live toad first thing in the morning, nothing worse will happen all day.)

To: zeugma
Considering Steve Ballmer's more recent remarks, I'm not about to take any claim of heightened security at Microsoft seriously...

See: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1002404/posts

See also:


3 posted on 11/08/2003 11:38:32 PM PST by Prime Choice (The judiciary is supposed to be 1/3rd of the checks and balances; not a special interest trump card.)

To: zeugma
RedHat anyone????
4 posted on 11/08/2003 11:47:48 PM PST by clee1 (Where's the beef???)

To: clee1
RedHat anyone????

Red Hat is about to become a lot more expensive.

5 posted on 11/08/2003 11:57:41 PM PST by HAL9000

To: zeugma
Red Hat Drops Free Linux!

How do you make money from free software? Well, pretty much, you don't; at least not directly:

Red Hat Inc. has just announced that it is going to drop

support for Linux... users of any enterprise-level Linux

distro with the Red Hat name on it will need to pay for it.

http://www.linuxworld.com/story/37812.htm

There's more to the story--- Red Hat is pushing its non-paying customers to a new, untested free distro called "Fedora" ( http://www.fedora.us/index-main.html ). But Fedora isn't the same as Red Hat, and a lot of Red Hat users are now angry at being forced to pay or switch.

6 posted on 11/09/2003 12:04:25 AM PST by Tim Dr Hook McCracken

To: Tim Dr Hook McCracken
Red Hat Drops Free Linux!

Uh, not exactly.

They're re-naming their free line to 'Fedora'.

And they're focusing their business on 'Enterprise-class' work. They obviously think they can compete with IBM, Sun and MS for a chunk of that market. It's a tactical choice, the same one made by IBM. It makes sense, for IBM, who makes most of their real money from hardware and software infrastructure.

I'm not sure I think it's a smart choice for Red Hat, but it is their choice.

And this once again underscores perhaps the biggest single reason to use Linux -- Linux will go on. If you're not happy with this, you can go with one of a dozen other distros.

If you were on a highly proprietary OS, like Solaris or Win2K3Server, and they made some move like this, you'd be screwed.

7 posted on 11/09/2003 12:35:48 AM PST by Dominic Harr

To: Dominic Harr
In a totalitaran environment you don't need to be afraid to make "mistakes"
8 posted on 11/09/2003 12:46:57 AM PST by Truth666

To: Dominic Harr

The battle between Microsoft and freedom loving persons

1. Microsoft sells Windows with security holes that are not revealed
2. One of these security holes is exposed by a freedom loving person.
3. Microsoft makes no clear statement about which Windows versions are affected.
4. Microsoft orders an update.
5. This way Microsoft ensures that the exposed hole is closed and at the same time a few new holes are added.
6. Freedom loving persons start looking for holes from scratch.
9 posted on 11/09/2003 12:48:33 AM PST by Truth666

To: Truth666
"2. One of these security holes is exposed by a freedom loving person"

You sound like one of these mentally deranged hackers that have created so many problems for so many for no reason at all. Get a life.

10 posted on 11/09/2003 1:24:11 AM PST by at bay (no deals, Jacquelyn, only choice of lobster, steak or chicken for last dinner party of one)

To: Truth666
Criminal behavior = Freedom.

You're a jerkoff.

11 posted on 11/09/2003 1:46:29 AM PST by freebilly

To: Truth666
I know that you are simply a troll, but...

2. One of these security holes is exposed by a freedom loving person.

Do you vote Libertarian?

12 posted on 11/09/2003 5:00:36 AM PST by Dr Warmoose

To: zeugma
bump
13 posted on 11/09/2003 5:25:03 AM PST by Chief_Joe (From where the sun now sits, I will fight on -FOREVER!)

To: zeugma
Microsoft is itself responsible for this situation. They created an architecture which allows executable content to be placed on machines without the consent of the user. They papered it over with a transparently flawed content-signing model.

Microsoft has been negligent. By ignoring the obvious consequences of their decisions on customers, a court might find them to have been civilly or criminally negligent.

Why did it happen? Because Microsoft managers are in it for the money only, are short sighted, and are more concerned with surviving in the organization long enough to vest their stock options, than in being customer or even corporate advocates.

Who will suffer? Well, we all will. But ultimately, Microsoft will, and its preeminence will be lost.
14 posted on 11/09/2003 6:12:08 AM PST by Tax Government

To: zeugma
I wish those Penguin Pings included apps. Much as I would love to switch to a different OS till there are real pro-music apps ready to use I just can't. Especially since win2003 server is so fast and solid...and no, I am NOT a M$ fan.
15 posted on 11/09/2003 6:17:14 AM PST by TheStickman

To: Tax Government
The users are to blame.

People keep finding excuses not to migrate off Microsoft, like a battered wife sticking with her abusive husband.

If they do it much longer, Microsoft will find a way to force people to use their server software, and, while they can never really "kill" Linux, will minimize its impact.

Wake up people. This is the time to get off Microsoft, while the gettin' is good!

16 posted on 11/09/2003 6:31:55 AM PST by B Knotts (Go 'Nucks!)

To: John Robinson; B Knotts; stainlessbanner; TechJunkYard; ShadowAce; Knitebane; AppyPappy; jae471; ...
The Penguin Ping.

Wanna be Penguified? Just holla!

Got root?

17 posted on 11/09/2003 8:11:07 AM PST by rdb3 (We're all gonna go, but I hate to go fast. Then again, it won't be fun to stick around and go last.)

To: zeugma
wariness could prompt companies to delay software upgrades from every third to every fourth year

That's what I expect. This effect will probably kick the serious revenue from Longhorn down the calendar another year or so. By the time Longhorn comes out, most of the Bad Stuff will have been wrung out of Windows 2003 server and the virus-writers will be finding it tougher to find new holes in it. The first few guys who put Longhorn out there will get whacked a few times, and everybody knows it. Most people will hang back and wait to see how many arrows in the back the pioneers get.

18 posted on 11/09/2003 11:07:56 AM PST by Nick Danger (With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.)

To: Dominic Harr
Uh, not exactly. They're re-naming their free line to 'Fedora'.

Rrrrrright, Harr. Fedora is going to end up like Mozilla. Tepid support. Not widely used.
19 posted on 11/09/2003 1:12:44 PM PST by Bush2000

To: Bush2000
You always amaze me in how little you need to know before you feel the need to speak.


Red Hat is changing their classic distro into a community project. It will be closer to Debian now in that it is developed by the community for the community. It will feature the more cutting edge features and be where r&d occurs. The Linux enthusiast doesn't demand production stability.

That's where the Enterprise Red Hat distro comes in. Features are second in priority to stability, security, and support.

Updates for the Enterprise version will be tested and certified by Red Hat. The same patches will be made available for Fedora, but without warrenty.

Fedora is free. Technically, so is Enterprise. You can still download the packages. You can still copy the CDs and give them away legally.

But of course, you don't care.It's your agenda to bash Linux and you've done that. Run along now, Sparky.
20 posted on 11/09/2003 4:33:30 PM PST by shadowman99

To: shadowman99
Red Hat is changing their classic distro into a community project. It will be closer to Debian now in that it is developed by the community for the community. It will feature the more cutting edge features and be where r&d occurs. The Linux enthusiast doesn't demand production stability

One of the primary reasons why Linux has come as far as it has is because of corporate sponsorship from Red Hat, IBM, and many other companies. Without that sponsorship, the pace of "innovation" (if you can call copying innovative) is going to slow. That may be fine for cheapskates but won't cut it for many enterprises...
21 posted on 11/09/2003 4:38:05 PM PST by Bush2000

To: Bush2000
One of the primary reasons why Linux has come as far as it has is because of corporate sponsorship from Red Hat, IBM, and many other companies. Without that sponsorship, the pace of "innovation" (if you can call copying innovative) is going to slow. That may be fine for cheapskates but won't cut it for many enterprises...

And your point is? Software / service companies are shying away from investing in linux? Could of fooled me.
22 posted on 11/09/2003 4:49:01 PM PST by lelio

To: lelio
And your point is? Software / service companies are shying away from investing in linux? Could of fooled me.

This effectively spells the end of any hope that Linux had of becoming a desktop player.
23 posted on 11/09/2003 5:07:30 PM PST by Bush2000

To: Bush2000
Once again, wrong. Many of the Red Hat developers will continue on with Fedora. This is where new software will be introduced and refined. This has always been the case, but until now that project was call "rawhide". Rawhide's goals will be merged into Fedora.

Red Hat is not walking away from Fedora. They are going to cultivate the name brand "Red Hat" to be identified with the Enterprise. But that's just a marketing move. They have the most recognized name in Linux. They're going to more protective of that name now.

IBM and Novell re-committed their support to Linux this week with the announcement that Novell has purchased Suse Linux. IBM has invested $50 million dollars in this new venture. What is interesting here is that Novell is legally immune from the SCO lawsuit, and they now own a Linux distro.

The last thing you are missing is that Linux is just a kernel. A great deal of the other stuff in the distro has been developed by the GNU Herd project, Apache, MySQL, and countless independents. They aren't going away either.

If the Linux kernel died tomorrow in a courtroom there are alternatives that would be plugged in it's place. But of course, that means SCO has to prove their case in 2 separate court cases, and potentially more soon. IBM seems quite confident that no code theft has taken place - IBM is pushing 2 separate motions for discovery, and SCO has missed deadlines to deliver discovery materials. SCO is attacking the GPL as "illegal and unconstitutional" - but if by some slim chance they succeed, they still lose. SCO has distributed code under that GPL, and would suddenly be guilty of copyright infringement. The GPL was the only permission they had from scores of developers to sell code contributed to GNU/Linux.


You remind me of the Dems who underestimate Bush. They continue to lose ground in each election. Linux is here to stay. It's not trivial. There are and will be heavy hitters behind it's continued development.
24 posted on 11/09/2003 5:42:00 PM PST by shadowman99

To: zeugma
All I can say is....

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

25 posted on 11/09/2003 5:48:28 PM PST by pctech

To: rdb3
as a matter of fact... yes... for three years.
26 posted on 11/09/2003 6:27:32 PM PST by Robert_Paulson2 (robert... the rino...)

To: Robert_Paulson2; rdb3
as a matter of fact... yes... for three years.

And I also, as of last night.

27 posted on 11/09/2003 6:38:11 PM PST by yhwhsman ("Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small..." -Sir Winston Churchill)

To: shadowman99
Once again, wrong. Many of the Red Hat developers will continue on with Fedora. This is where new software will be introduced and refined. This has always been the case, but until now that project was call "rawhide". Rawhide's goals will be merged into Fedora. Red Hat is not walking away from Fedora. They are going to cultivate the name brand "Red Hat" to be identified with the Enterprise. But that's just a marketing move. They have the most recognized name in Linux. They're going to more protective of that name now.

I suppose if you've gotta hold onto something, you might as well hold onto that delusion. Because that's what it is. RedHat is turning Fedora into precisely the same thing that Netscape turned Mozilla into: a marginalized, low-budget also-ran that few people use.

IBM and Novell re-committed their support to Linux this week with the announcement that Novell has purchased Suse Linux.

I actually give Novell a lot of credit for taking over Suse. If anybody has a chance of succeeding here, it's Novell, not Fedora. Investment dollars speak louder than lame-ass freeware promises.

The last thing you are missing is that Linux is just a kernel. A great deal of the other stuff in the distro has been developed by the GNU Herd project, Apache, MySQL, and countless independents. They aren't going away either.

So what. The thing that makes Windows pervasive is the fact that it integrates all of those elements well enough for the average person to use. Linux hasn't succeeded in that space because it's generally recognized as being immature from an integration standpoint. Fedora doesn't help its cause.

If the Linux kernel died tomorrow in a courtroom there are alternatives that would be plugged in it's place.

If SCO prevails, you guys will be relegated to selling disks on street corners. The corporate investment which got you here will dry up immediately, if that happens.
28 posted on 11/09/2003 11:24:45 PM PST by Bush2000

To: Bush2000
... the pace of "innovation" (if you can call copying innovative)...

Bwhahaha... funny.

Isn't that how M$ "innovated"?

29 posted on 11/10/2003 5:05:08 AM PST by AFreeBird (your mileage may vary)

To: Bush2000
"If SCO prevails"

roflmao...


30 posted on 11/10/2003 11:31:55 AM PST by Robert_Paulson2 (robert... the rino...)

To: yhwhsman
good for you.
31 posted on 11/10/2003 11:39:18 AM PST by Robert_Paulson2 (robert... the rino...)

To: Robert_Paulson2
"If SCO prevails" roflmao...

Said the wannabe lawyer...
32 posted on 11/10/2003 11:46:35 AM PST by Bush2000

To: Bush2000
If SCO prevails, you guys will be relegated to selling disks on street corners.

Even if as you say for the sake of argument SCO prevails in its suit against IBM, and IBM is forced to pay a large amount of damages to SCO and the Linux kernel is considered 'tainted' what happens? Now, I do not personally believe that this will be the outcome, and my professional opinion is that SCO's claims of ownership of NUMA, SMP, JFS, and XFS are unfounded. But for the sake of argument what if? Do you know what happens? Every body switches to BSD. Life goes on as usual.

33 posted on 11/10/2003 11:54:54 AM PST by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy.)

To: Bush2000
I see you are busily trying to re-direct the discussion here to something other than the subject of the article, which is how the flaws in Microsoft software are causing companies to abandon their products to find something better.

I understand why you might wish to re-direct a discussion away from the flaws in Microsoft software. You would surely prefer that people talk about SCO and stuff, but you know, there really are flaws in Microsoft software and that's really what this article was about. So to Hell with what you said, I insist on discussing the flaws in Microsoft software.

Did you see where the article talks about customers angry about the persistent security concerns? Can you blame them?

I think that instead of responding to your comments about linux, I'll just keep referring to the many documented flaws in Microsoft software, if for no other reason than to taunt you like a Happy Fun Ball.

34 posted on 11/10/2003 2:34:12 PM PST by Nick Danger (With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.)

To: Nick Danger
documented flaws in Microsoft software

Bump.

35 posted on 11/10/2003 2:46:00 PM PST by Stentor

To: Liberal Classic
Every body switches to BSD.

Not really. If SCO prevails and is granted full ownership of Linux, then it's not a far stretch that the same lunatic judge would grant them total ownership of BSD as well.
36 posted on 11/11/2003 12:40:04 AM PST by Dimensio (The only thing you feel when you take a human life is recoil. -- Frank "Earl" Jones)

To: rdb3
Please add me to your ping list, thank you.
37 posted on 11/11/2003 1:48:25 AM PST by ezsmoke

To: Dimensio
I do not believe that SCO can make the same claims about BSD as it does now with Linux. I am sceptical of SCO's current claims, of course, but they have less bearing on BSD. Though BSD can run on multiprocessor computers it doesn't have files contaning the IBM copyright, which is the crux of the whole suit. If you recall the owner of UNIX (c) has settled with BSDi Unix-clone over trademark and copyright violations similar to the current case. USL/Novell vs. BSDi settled the question of whether Unix-clones have a right to exist. They do. They cannot contain copyright violations, but the current question seems to be: does IBM have the right to put files they own may be included in Linux if SCO doesn't want them to. The question is not whether Unix-clones have a right to exist. Now, SCO has hinted that is the question, claiming it fights 'unauthorized UNIX implementations' with this case, but that is just in press releases. Unauthorized UNIX implementations clearly implies BSD as well, but that's not the subject of the current case and due to a previous settlement I do not believe they can ignore precedent.
38 posted on 11/11/2003 7:39:23 AM PST by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy.)

To: zeugma
Don't worry, the UN wants to get involved with privacy and security on the internet, to help out companies like MS (not meant to be funny either).
39 posted on 11/11/2003 7:42:54 AM PST by af_vet_rr

To: B Knotts
Agreed, it will take a hit to MS's bottomline before they get really serious. These bounties are just the start, but MS is starting to feel the pressure.
40 posted on 11/11/2003 7:44:05 AM PST by af_vet_rr

To: All

It's greed that threatens Microsoft

I found out today that after paying hundreds of $$ for xp pro, that I cannot use it on more than one computer

IN MY OWN HOME

I now join the ever growing ranks of Americans who will never again buy a MS product.

41 posted on 11/11/2003 7:44:40 AM PST by The Wizard (Saddamocrats are enemies of America, treasonous everytime they speak)

To: Nick Danger
Good catch. I was noticing that as I was reading through the thread.
42 posted on 11/11/2003 8:57:34 AM PST by B Knotts (Go 'Nucks!)

To: zeugma

Z,

I have been all over the internet tonight: Kim Komando, Ad Alarm, Symantec, Norton, etc etc etc

Maybe you can help a frustrated FReeper:

Here's what happened. A couple of months ago, I noticed that my Norton no longer flashed the warning I was accustomed to seeing, "virus detected; please quarantine, or delete" (or whatever it said). This included periodic notices from the typical "Microsoft":

"Download this patch now", accompanied by an attachment. Which I knew not to open.

At about the same time, I stopped receiving emails from people who would call saying they had sent one to me (Locked up, apparently.) I called the local computer company. They ran Spybot, Symantec/Norton, and AdAware for two days. Finally told me they had isolated a virus that most programs had missed. He said there is a new virus which blocks anti-detection efforts, and actually 'disables' programs such as Norton. Two weeks later the technician returned, and I told him since his last visit, that I still get the typical Microsoft notice, I do not open it, nor does it show up as a virus. But it does not show up as previously with the red flashing warning. Again, he had said on the earlier visit that a new virus is out there which disables Norton and other detection methods.

He checked again and found nothing, but I am probably disabled from Norton insofar as I can ascertain. When I go to Kim Komando, Norton, et al, there is really not a place to enter a question and to receive a response via email.

I tried some external PC checks also such as Panda, but nothing showed up.

My question: Should I leave Norton and go to MacAfee or some other company?

ANY response, or sharing of my question with those having expertise, is MUCH appreciated!


43 posted on 09/15/2004 9:18:13 PM PDT by ZOTnot ("The burden of Damascus." I'll take the side of Israel, thank you.....)

To: zeugma

Z,

I have been all over the internet tonight: Kim Komando, Ad Alarm, Symantec, Norton, etc etc etc

Maybe you can help a frustrated FReeper:

Here's what happened. A couple of months ago, I noticed that my Norton no longer flashed the warning I was accustomed to seeing, "virus detected; please quarantine, or delete" (or whatever it said). This included periodic notices from the typical "Microsoft":

"Download this patch now", accompanied by an attachment. Which I knew not to open.

At about the same time, I stopped receiving emails from people who would call saying they had sent one to me (Locked up, apparently.) I called the local computer company. They ran Spybot, Symantec/Norton, and AdAware for two days. Finally told me they had isolated a virus that most programs had missed. He said there is a new virus which blocks anti-detection efforts, and actually 'disables' programs such as Norton. Two weeks later the technician returned, and I told him since his last visit, that I still get the typical Microsoft notice, I do not open it, nor does it show up as a virus. But it does not show up as previously with the red flashing warning. Again, he had said on the earlier visit that a new virus is out there which disables Norton and other detection methods.

He checked again and found nothing, but I am probably disabled from Norton insofar as I can ascertain. When I go to Kim Komando, Norton, et al, there is really not a place to enter a question and to receive a response via email.

I tried some external PC checks also such as Panda, but nothing showed up.

My question: Should I leave Norton and go to MacAfee or some other company?

ANY response, or sharing of my question with those having expertise, is MUCH appreciated!


44 posted on 09/15/2004 9:18:16 PM PDT by ZOTnot ("The burden of Damascus." I'll take the side of Israel, thank you.....)

To: ZOTnot
Well, I don't use windows at all anymore, so I'm unfortunately not going to be of much assistance. "bush2000" is one of the local MS zealots, so you might want to ping him.

My suggestion, as always is to check out any of various linux distributions. and just abandon microsoft entirely.

45 posted on 09/16/2004 5:52:48 AM PDT by zeugma (If the gov. =must= assign me a number, it could at least be prime. How about 10980432398542099813?)

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News: Microsoft spreads virus--by accident
Special to ZDNet News ^ | June 14, 2002, 9:20 AM PT | By Robert Lemos

Posted on 06/14/2002 5:22:49 PM PDT by amigatec

By

Robert Lemos


Special to ZDNet News

June 14, 2002, 9:20 AM PT

Microsoft accidentally sent the virulent Nimda worm to South Korean developers when it distributed Korean-language versions of Visual Studio .Net that carried the virus, the company acknowledged Friday.

Microsoft's flagship developer tools picked up the digital pest when a third-party company translated the program into Korean, said Christopher Flores, lead product manager for Visual Studio .Net. Flores stressed that no other foreign-language versions of the program were found to carry the worm, and he said the worm had not actually executed on any developers' systems.

"There have been no recorded infections," Flores said. In fact, he added, it's almost impossible to get the worm to execute on computers with Visual Studio .Net installed.

The infected file is stored in the same location as the help files, Flores said, but it's a file created by Nimda, so the .Net program's help system doesn't know it's there and will never reference--or open--the file. It's unlikely, then, that Nimda would break loose, Flores said.

And if the worm did execute somehow, he said, it couldn't spread to the developer's system because the virus only runs on systems running Internet Explorer 5.5 and lower, and Visual Studio .Net requires version 6.0 of the browser.

"It's extremely unlikely that a developer would ever accidentally get infected by Nimda," said Flores. "They would have to try hard just to run the worm."

Still, the slip up is yet another stain on Microsoft's reputation as the company works to convince the public and the tech community that its products are secure. In a company-wide memo sent last January, Bill Gates trumpeted a " trustworthy computing initiative," calling on Microsoft's employees to put security above all else.

Nimda started infecting computers last September and quickly became an epidemic. However, since October, incidents of the worm have dropped.

The Redmond, Wash.-based software giant released Visual Studio .Net in February, and the Korean version made it to market some 90 days ago, Flores said.

The Korean version of the developer tools picked up Nimda from the third-party "localization" company Microsoft hired to translate the program's help system into Korean. That company had already been infected by Nimda and spread the virus to the help tools, which gained an extra, infected file.

Flores said that under Microsoft's security policy, the company normally scans every file being transferred to the master of a program. But in this case, the company only analyzed files it expected to find. Since the Nimda-infected file had been added by the worm, the company overlooked it.

"We have been (scanning all files) in every one of our geographies," Flores said. "There was a loophole in our Korean side that caused us to miss files that we didn't expect to be there."

It wasn't until a Microsoft employee was adding the help documentation to the software giant's developer Web site that the worm was found. "We have to go through a conversion process to an online HTML format," said Flores. "During that process we found an extra file hanging around."

Microsoft has notified all its registered Korean customers, and the company posted a patch to its Web site Thursday night. It also plans to send clean copies of the program to every registered customer free of charge and is attempting to contact developers who may have bought the product but not registered it.




TOPICS: Business/Economy; Front Page News; Technical
KEYWORDS: HEHEHEHE; MICROSOFT; NIMDA; TECHINDEX
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This is nice instead of waiting to get another MS virus, MS now supplies for you. Some "trustworthy computing"
1 posted on 06/14/2002 5:22:49 PM PDT by amigatec

To: Bush2000; Don Joe; Dominic Harr; innocentbystander

And a big ol' ping to you all!!!


2 posted on 06/14/2002 5:25:36 PM PDT by amigatec

To: amigatec
unbelievable bump sheeeeeeeesh what is the next microsoftflub?
3 posted on 06/14/2002 5:27:58 PM PDT by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!

To: amigatec
Ah yes...pinging the "PC" Hatfields and the "Mac" Coys. You will find me in the bomb shelter.
4 posted on 06/14/2002 5:32:07 PM PDT by tubebender

To: tubebender
Ah yes...pinging the "PC" Hatfields and the "Mac" Coys.


5 posted on 06/14/2002 5:34:15 PM PDT by steve-b

To: amigatec
I thought "Virus Free" meant "contains no viruses", not "virus included at no extra charge".
6 posted on 06/14/2002 5:35:39 PM PDT by steve-b

To: amigatec;Tech_index
I'm getting mighty tired of Microsuck screwups.

I don't care if Bill Gates is richer than the Aga Khan. I don't care if he has more money than any 5 countries picked at random.

I purely hate the software he puts out.

Worse, since everyone else (99%) is using this obscene software I have to use it for file compatability.

Is there any other supplier that produces good software with Microsuck file compatability?

7 posted on 06/14/2002 5:41:34 PM PDT by LibKill

Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: amigatec
Flores stressed that no other foreign-language versions of the program were found to carry the worm, and he said the worm had not actually executed on any developers' systems.

Whooooo, boy. Korean version. Nobody was affected. Care for any cheese with your whine? Weak.
9 posted on 06/14/2002 5:52:12 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: LibKill
I purely hate the software he puts out.

Yeah, we can tell: Hate is the mind-killer.
10 posted on 06/14/2002 5:53:11 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: Bush2000
Did you just get off the phone with Bill?

Is he still trying to some way to worm out of this one. I thought according to MS only GPL software sent out patches with Virus's in them?

This is what he has been telling the world.

11 posted on 06/14/2002 5:56:38 PM PDT by amigatec

To: Bush2000
Whooooo, boy. Korean version. Nobody was affected. Care for any cheese with your whine? Weak.

Could have been the English Version.

It just happened to be the Korean Version.

12 posted on 06/14/2002 5:58:26 PM PDT by amigatec

To: amigatec
I would suggest that Windows itself is a computer virus.
13 posted on 06/14/2002 5:58:27 PM PDT by magellan

To: Bush2000
Yeah, we can tell: Hate is the mind-killer.

Bzzzzzzt! Wrong!

Re-read the 'Dune' series by Frank Herbert.

Fear is the mind-killer.

14 posted on 06/14/2002 6:01:47 PM PDT by LibKill

To: amigatec
Did you just get off the phone with Bill?

Don't know the man. You?

Is he still trying to some way to worm out of this one. I thought according to MS only GPL software sent out patches with Virus's in them? This is what he has been telling the world.

Where did you read this? Reference, please.
15 posted on 06/14/2002 6:11:56 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: LibKill
Bzzzzzzt! Wrong! Re-read the 'Dune' series by Frank Herbert. Fear is the mind-killer.

And you wonder why Linux is doomed to always live in the server rooms with the geeks. You guys can't even make the mental leap from fear to hate.
16 posted on 06/14/2002 6:14:29 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: amigatec
Could have been the English Version.

Ah, but it wasn't.

It just happened to be the Korean Version.

When was the last time you booted up the Korean version of Visual Studio or IIS? Don't you have anything better to do than troll over this? This is weaaaaaaaaaaaaak...
17 posted on 06/14/2002 6:15:49 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: libkill
ya gotta admit, his posts are pretty witty. :)
18 posted on 06/14/2002 6:17:36 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican

To: Bush2000
And you wonder why Linux is doomed to always live in the server rooms with the geeks. You guys can't even make the mental leap from fear to hate.

Give me good software that does what I tell it to do, AND, file compatability with Microsuck.

There will be one more Linux geek. :)

19 posted on 06/14/2002 6:18:33 PM PDT by LibKill

To: LibKill
Give me good software that does what I tell it to do, AND, file compatability with Microsuck.

Don't you have spell checkers under Linux? Or haven't you progressed the point of learning to use one?
20 posted on 06/14/2002 6:25:54 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: magellan
I would suggest that Windows itself is a computer virus.

That's profound. Call the DOJ.
21 posted on 06/14/2002 6:26:58 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: Bush2000
And you wonder why Linux is doomed to always live in the server rooms with the geeks. You guys can't even make the mental leap from fear to hate.

Whistlin down the graveyard?

22 posted on 06/14/2002 6:28:44 PM PDT by Stentor

To: Stentor
Whistlin down the graveyard?

Add 'em to the same list as Palm, Sun, Oracle, Novell, Lotus, IBM, Corel, WordPerfect, OS/2, and Mac...
23 posted on 06/14/2002 6:30:58 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: Bush2000
Dude, I ain't using Linux. Yet.

'Microsuck' is a put-down on the bug infested software that I am forced by circumstances to use.

Seriously, if there are alternatives to MicroSoft (TM) that have file compatability, I would like to hear about them.

But if all you have to offer is automatic defense of some of the worst software in the world (Microsoft [TM]), well I am not interested.

24 posted on 06/14/2002 6:31:41 PM PDT by LibKill

To: LibKill
Methinks you are naive and the Linux snake-handlers have sold you a bill of goods. Linux and Mac and Solaris are just as buggy as Windows. http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=23958.
25 posted on 06/14/2002 6:35:34 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: amigatec
This really isn't anything new... Apple, Intel, and Novell have all shipped infected products...

Mark

26 posted on 06/14/2002 6:38:47 PM PDT by MarkL

To: Bush2000
Linux and Mac and Solaris are just as buggy as Windows.

Sorry, I mistook one of your posts to mean that you were into Linux.

I am not eager to learn another operating system. I have been through too many already since I first took up the challenge and blessing of personal computers 20 years ago.

I know a couple of Linux geeks but it seems very complicated. I can't see where it will benefit me to learn this new system.

Solaris is something that I am blissfully unaware of.

I am familiar with Macs from work. They are OK for the office, but I would not have one in my home.:)

Still, I say that if another manufactorer gave me software (windows based?) that did what I wanted it to do and had MicroSoft(TM) file compatability, I would buy it with my hard earned dollars.

My major gripe with MicroSoft(TM)is the versions of Word after Office 97.

You put a picture and some text here. You do a save and everything is automatically reformatted without so much as a 'by-your-leave-sir'.

Dammit! I am supposed to be the boss, not the software.

27 posted on 06/14/2002 6:46:47 PM PDT by LibKill

To: MarkL
This really isn't anything new... Apple, Intel, and Novell have all shipped infected products...

True. And it's not the first time for MS either.

28 posted on 06/14/2002 6:50:21 PM PDT by TechJunkYard

To: LibKill
Still, I say that if another manufactorer gave me software (windows based?) that did what I wanted it to do and had MicroSoft(TM) file compatability, I would buy it with my hard earned dollars.

Ah, Ok. I understand. Have you ever tried Adobe Acrobat?
29 posted on 06/14/2002 6:57:19 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: Bush2000
This is weaaaaaaaaaaaaak

No..... that is bad quality control. Distributing bad software is not too bad. Every company does it from time to time. Distributing a virus when you're as big as Microsoft is not acceptable. They aren't some small shareware developer, they are one of the richest companies in the world.

30 posted on 06/14/2002 7:21:46 PM PDT by dheretic

To: Bush2000
Add Microsoft's XBox division to that as well. The XBox hacks can very well spell real trouble for Microsoft. If I buy a XBox and turn it into a DivX player they just lost $100.
31 posted on 06/14/2002 7:24:36 PM PDT by dheretic

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32 posted on 06/14/2002 7:25:11 PM PDT by Mo1

To: Bush2000
Why do you insist on trying to prove your points by going to windows-centric websites? That is as pointless as a Socialist pointing to the Communist Manifesto as a good list of reasons why Capitalism ain't all it's cracked up to be.
33 posted on 06/14/2002 7:26:59 PM PDT by dheretic

To: LibKill
Is there any other supplier that produces good software with Microsuck file compatability

Try a mainstream Linux distribution (RedHat, etc...) then run WINE (Wine Is Not an Emulator) to run Windows in a window :) If windows crashes close the window and restart it. A newer alternative that is comming out is Lindows, a unix distribution that runs almost all windows software. I read about it on slashdot.

34 posted on 06/14/2002 7:27:21 PM PDT by MarshalNey

To: Bush2000
You guys can't even make the mental leap from fear to hate.

Well, B2K, a true geek (read: true technology enthusiast) is most certainly not a shill.

35 posted on 06/14/2002 7:28:08 PM PDT by rdb3

To: amigatec
Payback for the World Cup match with Korea???
36 posted on 06/14/2002 7:31:28 PM PDT by texson66

To: Bush2000
Linux and Mac and Solaris are just as buggy as Windows.

Well!

If that's the case, Linux must be ahead of the curve (using your logic, of course) since it started in the early '90s. When the MS start? When did Apple begin? Solaris (Sun)?

Again, if "Linux and Mac and Solaris are just as buggy as Windows," Linux wins. The way you frame it, there shouldn't even be a comparison!

37 posted on 06/14/2002 7:35:00 PM PDT by rdb3

To: dheretic
The article references statistics posted on www.securityfocus.com. And nobody is calling them a shill for MS, either. Don't believe the article: Check out the numbers yourself.
38 posted on 06/14/2002 7:37:03 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: dheretic
Add Microsoft's XBox division to that as well. The XBox hacks can very well spell real trouble for Microsoft. If I buy a XBox and turn it into a DivX player they just lost $100.

I don't think you quite know what's involved to hack an XBox, dude. You have to remove the case and unsolder/solder components on the motherboard to get it to work. If you think that's a mainstream job for just about any user, you're kidding yourself. It's strictly a geek hobby thing.
39 posted on 06/14/2002 7:39:41 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: dheretic
No..... that is bad quality control. Distributing bad software is not too bad. Every company does it from time to time. Distributing a virus when you're as big as Microsoft is not acceptable. They aren't some small shareware developer, they are one of the richest companies in the world.

I agree that it is unacceptable. But you will have to admit: It didn't affect anyone; therefore, the practical damage is zero. You're crying over milk that was never spilled.
40 posted on 06/14/2002 7:41:03 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: magellan
I would suggest that Windows itself is a computer virus plague.
41 posted on 06/14/2002 7:50:39 PM PDT by stainlessbanner

To: Bush2000
Have you ever tried Adobe Acrobat?

Yes. At work we use Adobe Acrobat for many uploads.

Even so, most of the back-and-forth is in Microsoft (tm) Word (TM) format.

The emails fly hither and thither, but the ruling factor is that eveyone is using Microsoft (tm) Word, or Microsoft (tm) PowerPoint, or Microsoft (tm) Excel.

The basic problem is that we have no alternative for file compatibility.

I would not mind the cruddy Microsoft (tm) software so much if there was an alternative.

That alternative would be software that did what one told it to do, nothing more, and 100% file compatibility with Microsoft (tm).

Microsoft (tm) is very much like the 100,000 pound gorilla, you can't ignore it.

I am not one of those liberal loosers who object to Bill getting rich. I only hope that someday I will come up with an even better idea that will make me even richer than he.

I do object to bug filled software that does everything except what I want it to do.

42 posted on 06/14/2002 8:16:19 PM PDT by LibKill

To: Bush2000, all
Standard MS defense tactic #42: Peasants with Pitchforks'

When faced with an embarrasing situation for The Company, the sales agent should rely upon the 'peasants with pitchforks' technique. Get out the 'torches' and burn the thread to the ground. Insult, attack people and generally make the thread too hot for the MS "bashers".

Goal: MS critics generally dislike 'flame wars' and will abandon the thread, thereby stopping the criticism of MS in the public forum.

43 posted on 06/14/2002 8:19:30 PM PDT by Dominic Harr

To: LibKill
Here you go...

Knock yourself out.  One less complainer is worth the loss in revenue to Microsoft.

Software602 PC Suite

44 posted on 06/14/2002 8:32:09 PM PDT by Incorrigible

To: Dominic Harr
Kill 'em all! Let Bill sort them out!
45 posted on 06/14/2002 8:36:17 PM PDT by Incorrigible

To: amigatec
Man, that has just GOT to be embarassing! Who reviewed the RTM???
46 posted on 06/14/2002 8:46:55 PM PDT by PatrioticAmerican

To: Bush2000
How can you be so unconcerned by such a lack of quality control. It's not a bug, it's a friggin virus, man!
47 posted on 06/14/2002 8:49:27 PM PDT by dheretic

To: dheretic
How can you be so unconcerned by such a lack of quality control. It's not a bug, it's a friggin virus, man!

You're not listening. I *am* concerned by the lack of quality control. I'm not excusing the fundamental issues; however, I am suggesting that some of this feigned outrage is a little bit over the top considering that this problem never affected a single user.
48 posted on 06/15/2002 12:55:33 AM PDT by Bush2000

To: Bush2000
The trouble is that it revealed a stupified security methodology. It was plain dumb luck that it happened in an environment which was not friendly to the worm. In some other environment -- such as a distribution of a service pack of Windows -- where a user poking around could invoke the worm, it would be a disaster.
49 posted on 06/15/2002 1:24:22 AM PDT by drlevy88

To: Bush2000
P.S. If they had McAfee'd the whole distribution disk, they would have caught it.
50 posted on 06/15/2002 1:25:11 AM PDT by drlevy88


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News: Microsoft spreads virus--by accident
Special to ZDNet News ^ | June 14, 2002, 9:20 AM PT | By Robert Lemos

Posted on 06/14/2002 5:22:49 PM PDT by amigatec

click here to read article


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To: drlevy88
Agree on both points.
51 posted on 06/15/2002 1:28:47 AM PDT by Bush2000

To: Incorrigible
Thanks! I will check it out.
52 posted on 06/15/2002 4:30:42 AM PDT by LibKill


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FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2003 Robinson-DeFehr Consulting, LLC.

E. Pluribus Unum
Since Nov 22, 1998
According to Microsoft, trying to figure out what makes their software crash is a crime.
17 posted on 11/11/2004 4:20:17 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Drug prohibition laws help fund terrorism.)
 

Knitebane
Since Oct 23, 1998
Sorry, but in my current business Those other mispelled and unheard of software packages, (that I am sure also have bugs) will not handle my aps.

Really?
 
What apps are those?
 
I can run Micrsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Visio, Outlook and Internet Explorer. I can run QuickBooks. I can run Photoshop for Windows. I can run VB-created apps.
 
And I only use Linux.
 
If you've had a transition expert come in and he's determined that your apps will not run under Linux, then fine.
 
Otherwise you are speaking of things of which you have no knowledge.

18 posted on 11/11/2004 4:26:31 PM PST by Knitebane
 
 
 

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Microsoft complains about 'irresponsible' security revelation (Redmond Whine Alert)
ZDnet UK ^ | 11/10/2004 | Dan Ilett

Posted on 11/11/2004 2:30:02 PM PST by Prime Choice

Microsoft is admonishing those who found the IFRAME vulnerability - the flaw exploited by the bofra virus - for the way they made it public.

Microsoft has slammed the people responsible for publishing details of the vulnerability that has lead to the creation of the bofra virus.

The software giant, which has yet to release a patch for the flaw, said that the vulnerability was not reported in a responsible fashion.

In a prepared email statement from a Microsoft spokesperson, the company said: "Microsoft is concerned that this new report of a vulnerability in Internet Explorer was not disclosed responsibly, potentially putting computer users at risk. We continue to encourage responsible disclosure of vulnerabilities. "

"We believe the commonly accepted practice of reporting vulnerabilities directly to a vendor serves everyone's best interests, by helping to ensure that customers receive comprehensive, high-quality updates for security vulnerabilities with no exposure to malicious attackers while the patch is being developed."

The bofra virus, which antivirus companies initially believed to be a MyDoom variant, emerged on Monday after the vulnerability it was based on was published last week on a Web chat forum.

On Friday security firm Secunia issued an advisory on the vulnerability, saying that the flaw was 'extremely critical'. Chief technology officer for the company Thomas Kristensen said that 'Ned', the individual who initially found the bug, stumbled across it when testing browsers when using a publicly available tool. The tool crashed IE, so he posted a question on an Internet forum asking others to look at why the program had failed. With some additional research from others in the community, it came to light that the IFRAME flaw was causing the crash.

"Microsoft is right that those who disclose this kind of thing are irresponsible," said Kristensen. "But in this case, it's slightly different because he [Ned] published the first part and they [the other researchers] published the second part. And he didn't do it -- it was done with a tool. If you find a crash in a browser, you might not know if it's serious or not. He might not have been able to test that."

The bofra virus sends out hundreds of emails from an infected machine. The reader on the target machine follows a link sent in the email, which leads to a Web site hosted on the original infected PC. The IE exploit on that Web site turns the computer into another infected machine, and the cycle starts again. All version of the worm also open a back door to the infected computers.

Microsoft has yet to release a patch for the IE vulnerability, but advised users to upgrade to Windows XP SP2, which is apparently unaffected by the flaw.


TOPICS:
News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: CRAPWARE; MICROSOFT; TROJANS; VIRUSES; WORMS
Microsoft pulled this same idiotic crap when the vulnerability behind Code Red was discovered in 2001. My suggestion to the shills in (and for) Redmond is that they shut up and fix their shoddy software.

And let's not forget Steve Ballmer's moronic statement on how security issues should be handled...


1 posted on 11/11/2004 2:30:02 PM PST by Prime Choice

To: Prime Choice

I tend to agree with MS on this. Others in the business that find flaws in someone's software shouldn't make it public for the very reasons stated. It is sad to hear a bunch of whiners that can't do the great things that MS has done.


2 posted on 11/11/2004 2:32:50 PM PST by stockpirate (Tagline is hung over from the election parties.)

To: Prime Choice

If Microsoft put a bounty on each security flaw found, and made it a substantial sum, Windoze would soon be hackproof.


3 posted on 11/11/2004 2:32:52 PM PST by Yo-Yo

To: Prime Choice

Sorry, but Microsoft has a point. Simply releasing info about a security breach before a fix has been found is irresponsible. There ought to be a "decent interval" between the discovery of the breach and its public revelation. I think a month is about right. The discoverer should first notify the software maker, then promise to hold off for at least a month before announcing the problem. This strikes me as a reasonable compromise that protects the public's right to know about the problem, but also minimizes the risk that the problem will be exploited by some scummy computer vandal.


4 posted on 11/11/2004 2:34:41 PM PST by ArcLight

To: stockpirate
So let me make sure I got this right:

1. Microsoft makes shoddy software, putting consumers at risk.
2. Independent group spanks Microsoft for doing things as enumerated in #1.
3. And the members of the independent group are the "bad guys."

Maybe that's the way it is in the old Soviet Union. Here in the U.S., it's called free market capitalism. If Microsoft can't manage its own malware, it should get out of the business.

5 posted on 11/11/2004 2:35:59 PM PST by Prime Choice (Hey-hey! Ho-ho! Arlen Specter's gotta go!)

To: ArcLight
6 posted on 11/11/2004 2:36:26 PM PST by Prime Choice (Hey-hey! Ho-ho! Arlen Specter's gotta go!)

To: ArcLight
I agree with you.

On the flipside though, couple of years ago I think, did not some third party announce a flaw and state that they tried to tell MS about it but were being ignored?

Keep in mind that this is coming from a user that has spent at least 4 hours so far - holiday time - cleaning up my kids computer.

Oh, the irony!

LVM

7 posted on 11/11/2004 2:45:21 PM PST by LasVegasMac ("5 times ain't sh!t - My Daddy won here 10 times" DEjr)

To: ArcLight

"There ought to be a "decent interval" between the discovery of the breach and its public revelation."

Go back and read the story. You have your facts all wrong.
A tool found the crash and the guy asked for help in determining why. Someone else found th actual problem. It was a colaborative discovery. Neither person alone found or published the exploit. It was readily replicatable every time you pointed this tool at a microsoft browser.

Microsoft STILL has not published a fix.

Had this been Nozilla, or Opera, or Konqueror browser the fix would be in WIDE distribrution already.


8 posted on 11/11/2004 2:49:48 PM PST by konaice

To: LasVegasMac

"On the flipside though, couple of years ago I think, did not some third party announce a flaw and state that they tried to tell MS about it but were being ignored?"


Billy G has promised that's not going to happen anymore.
They STILL take way too long to get a fix out.

The problem with MS software, is even if I find a problem I can't fix it or even research it's cause, because there is no access to the source code. Its like buying a car with the Engine compartment welded shut. Might look like a fuel problem, but could be a gummed up carborator, but there is nothing I can do but call the factory and wait for them to fix it.



9 posted on 11/11/2004 2:54:11 PM PST by konaice

To: Prime Choice

I guess we should all switch to Linex?

MS code is very robust, and of course has some problems, (as all software does) but in the interests of us slubs that have to use it, others should not publish the flaws, (so AssH*les can abuse us) but instead let MS know so it can be corrected.


10 posted on 11/11/2004 2:57:57 PM PST by stockpirate (Tagline is hung over from the election parties.)

To: konaice
"There ought to be a "decent interval" between the discovery of the breach and its public revelation."

Yeah, that will give the people who actually know about it time do their exploits undisturbed.

11 posted on 11/11/2004 3:05:59 PM PST by glorgau

To: konaice

Good point. Still, the people working on the problem would have done better to carry on their discussion on a private e-mail list rather than in public. In all fairness, many private bug hunters would not think to do this. But it's the right way to investigate a security problem.


12 posted on 11/11/2004 3:07:29 PM PST by ArcLight

To: stockpirate

"I guess we should all switch to Linex? "

Its LunUx not linex, and you might try it some time, you will be astounded. Go buy Novel's SuSE 9.2 personal edition for $30. It will knock you socks off with how easy it installs, and how much ROCK SOLID software in includes for the price.


13 posted on 11/11/2004 3:10:21 PM PST by konaice

To: konaice

Sorry, but in my current business Those other mispelled and unheard of software packages, (that I am sure also have bugs) will not handle my aps.


14 posted on 11/11/2004 3:13:12 PM PST by stockpirate (Tagline is hung over from the election parties.)

To: Prime Choice
"We believe the commonly accepted practice of reporting vulnerabilities directly to a vendor serves everyone's best interests, by helping to ensure that customers receive comprehensive, high-quality updates for security vulnerabilities with no exposure to malicious attackers while the patch is being developed."the vendors best intrests in COVERING UP the flaw so they can keep selling the crap.
15 posted on 11/11/2004 3:16:19 PM PST by ChefKeith (Life is GREAT with CoCo..........NASCAR...everything else is just a game!(Except War & Love))

To: Prime Choice
Microsoft's assumptions are:
  1. A vulnerability that is not announced is not being exploited.
  2. Their users are helpless until a patch is released.
Nonsense.
  1. Never assume that a vulnerability that is not announced is not being exploited.
  2. Users can render themselves protected by switching to another browser or by using IE with extra caution. These are a reasonable options and I have a right to know that I need them without delay.

16 posted on 11/11/2004 3:34:33 PM PST by ScuzzyTerminator

To: Prime Choice

According to Microsoft, trying to figure out what makes their software crash is a crime.


17 posted on 11/11/2004 4:20:17 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Drug prohibition laws help fund terrorism.)

To: stockpirate
Sorry, but in my current business Those other mispelled and unheard of software packages, (that I am sure also have bugs) will not handle my aps.

Really?

What apps are those?

I can run Micrsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Visio, Outlook and Internet Explorer. I can run QuickBooks. I can run Photoshop for Windows. I can run VB-created apps.

And I only use Linux.

If you've had a transition expert come in and he's determined that your apps will not run under Linux, then fine.

Otherwise you are speaking of things of which you have no knowledge.

18 posted on 11/11/2004 4:26:31 PM PST by Knitebane

To: stockpirate
MS code is very robust, and of course has some problems

And with all the money they make, you'd think they could afford a decent security audit of their crapware.

19 posted on 11/11/2004 4:31:48 PM PST by Prime Choice (Hey-hey! Ho-ho! Arlen Specter's gotta go!)

To: konaice
stockpirate:  It is sad to hear a bunch of whiners that can't do the great things that MS has done.

koniace:  The problem with MS software, is even if I find a problem I can't fix it or even research it's cause, because there is no access to the source code.

----------------------

"great things" ...      Yeah, riiiight...

The only great thing about Microsoft is the arrogance of their marketing people -- and the gullibility of the sheeple who buy into their bu||$#!t...

20 posted on 11/11/2004 4:34:26 PM PST by TXnMA (Still glad to be back home in God's Country!!!)

To: Knitebane

I be software engineer. I be having worked for big international software company, I had been subject matter expert. I be able to read and write.

My very simple DSL internet connection does not use junkware.


21 posted on 11/11/2004 4:44:51 PM PST by stockpirate (Tagline is hung over from the election parties.)

To: Prime Choice

Now we are at the heart of the problem, "all the money they make," nothing else needs to be said.


22 posted on 11/11/2004 4:46:13 PM PST by stockpirate (Tagline is hung over from the election parties.)

To: stockpirate
I be security engineer. I be having worked for big telecom provider. I had been Open Source software transition engineer. I been responsible for successfully migrating a dozen small and medium business off of legacy Microsoft software and onto Linux/FreeBSD/OpenBSD. I be able to read and write too. /end illiterate speak

Indeed, if what you've posted is an example of how well you read and write, I'd bet that I can read and write much better than you can.

My extremely complicated DSL-connected hosting service and connected lab network uses OpenBSD on security devices (firewall, intrusion detection, etc.) FreeBSD on servers and Linux on desktops (and some other miscellaneous machines)

I have one copy of Windows, Windows 98. It runs on a stand-alone, non-networked machine. I use it for games.

After having been paid to clean and advise on the cleaning of hundreds of Windows machines, I won't allow shoddy Microsoft operating systems on my network.

If you think that Open Source software is junkware, perhaps you've been living under a rock for the past five years or so.

Oracle works on Linux, Google runs on Linux, Free Repbulic runs on Linux and uses Perl.

Many of the current DSL routers on the market run Linux. So do many of the top-listed supercomputers.

Linux is in data centers, on hundreds of thousands of desktops, in huge render farms, database clusters and on web servers.

So you can call it junkware if you want, but you'd be wrong.

23 posted on 11/11/2004 5:23:08 PM PST by Knitebane

To: Knitebane

Right on Knitebane. Don't forget to mention that Linux is virtully virus immune and when there is a flaw Novel, or whoevers version it is, fixes it quickly. As far as browsers go, I use netscape and save a lot of problems for myself when it comes to spyware and viruses. Just my 2cents...


24 posted on 11/11/2004 5:25:25 PM PST by calex59

To: stockpirate

I think this is a browser issue. Firefox works for me.


25 posted on 11/11/2004 5:26:07 PM PST by Abcdefg

To: stockpirate
It is sad to hear a bunch of whiners that can't do the great things that MS has done.

Let's be specific, shall we?

Care to give us a list of the "great things" that Microsoft has done?

26 posted on 11/11/2004 5:27:12 PM PST by Knitebane

To: calex59
To be entirely fair, Linux isn't at all immune to viruses.

Linux, due to the way it is designed is very difficult to infect with a virus when it is operated normally. If you do a dumb thing like log in as root all the time, then virus infection is quite possible.

But note the difference. Under Linux you have to go out of your way to become vulnerable to viruses. Under Windows, you just have to use it normally.

Bug fixes don't come from a company like Novell. They come from the hundreds and thousands of people who use Linux. They can do this because they have the source code.

Netscape is a decent choice for a browser. (actually, once you get away from the buggy and unsecure Internet Explorer using a browser is generally reduced to a matter of taste.)

I've tried Opera and it's ok. I've tried Galeon and Netscape and even though both of them are based on Mozilla, I keep coming back to Firefox, although I also have Konqueror handy to replicate the kinds of functions that IE handles on Windows (file management, multimedia, etc.)

27 posted on 11/11/2004 5:37:31 PM PST by Knitebane

To: Knitebane

Sorry, just having a bit of fun. All of the different software packages are very good.

My DSL provider is Verizon, in my area it works with Windows.

MicroSoft makes a very good product, as do the others, I am tired of whiners complaining about MS, when their beef is they can't do what MS has done.


28 posted on 11/11/2004 5:47:36 PM PST by stockpirate (Tagline is hung over from the election parties.)

To: Knitebane

And MS did it first.


29 posted on 11/11/2004 5:52:58 PM PST by stockpirate (Tagline is hung over from the election parties.)

To: stockpirate
MicroSoft makes a very good product, as do the others, I am tired of whiners complaining about MS, when their beef is they can't do what MS has done.

At the risk of repeating myself...

What has MS done?

And I happen to disagree with you about Microsoft making a "very good" product. Most of their products are horribly buggy, tremendously overpriced and nightmares to maintain.

30 posted on 11/11/2004 5:55:16 PM PST by Knitebane

To: stockpirate

Did what first?


31 posted on 11/11/2004 5:55:39 PM PST by Knitebane

To: Knitebane

MADE THE MOST MONEY!


32 posted on 11/11/2004 5:58:22 PM PST by stockpirate (Tagline is hung over from the election parties.)

To: Knitebane

Hired the most people.

Installed on the most computers.

Used by the most people.

Bought out the most small companies.


33 posted on 11/11/2004 6:01:36 PM PST by stockpirate (Tagline is hung over from the election parties.)

To: stockpirate
And Al Capone used to be the richest man in Chicago.

So what?

34 posted on 11/11/2004 6:03:48 PM PST by Knitebane

To: stockpirate
Hired the most people.

Nope. Microsoft isn't even the largest employer in Redmond, WA. That's Boeing. And if you only count software companies in Redmond, they still come in second. Behind Nintendo.

Installed on the most computers.

Through marketing practices such as dumping and per-cpu licenses...something that most decent people discount as dishonest at best and criminal at worst.

Bought out the most small companies.

I'm pretty sure that IBM has Microsoft beat in that category. But if you want to talk about the companies that Microsoft drove into bankrupcy and then bought them, you'd probably be right.

35 posted on 11/11/2004 6:08:49 PM PST by Knitebane

To: Knitebane

Comparing Al Capone to Bill Gates is stupid. John Kerry once visited Texas, does that make him like GWB?


36 posted on 11/11/2004 6:08:59 PM PST by stockpirate (Tagline is hung over from the election parties.)

To: stockpirate
Comparing Al Capone to Bill Gates is stupid.

Your opinion.

And like most of your opinions on this thread, wrong.

37 posted on 11/11/2004 6:10:39 PM PST by Knitebane

To: Knitebane

It is called business. I understand that a lot of techies are anti-MS. But they need to stop whining about it to everyone, no one cares except a small group of techies.

MS has done a large amount of good inthis country, created many jobs, and I am sure the list could go on. But I tire of hearing from people that think MS is an evil big company.


38 posted on 11/11/2004 6:12:54 PM PST by stockpirate (Tagline is hung over from the election parties.)

To: Knitebane

Just because you claim my opinions are wrong doesn't make them so.

However, most would agree that Bill Gates and big Al are not two of the same type of businessmen.

Most who are anti-MS are those who do not have the ability to do the same in the business world or any other world for that matter as MS and Bill Gates have done.


39 posted on 11/11/2004 6:17:58 PM PST by stockpirate (Tagline is hung over from the election parties.)

To: stockpirate
It is called business.

So is prostitution, running an abortion clinic or selling crack on the street corner.

Just because it's "business" isn't an excuse for immoral or unethical practices and Microsoft has had more than it's share of those kinds of problems.

MS has done a large amount of good inthis country, created many jobs, and I am sure the list could go on.

And Al Capone opened a lot of soup kitchens and bread lines in Chicago during the Great Depression. Again, it doesn't excuse bad behavior.

But I tire of hearing from people that think MS is an evil big company.

And I tire of people defending Microsoft's unethical business practices by tossing out some notion that they've done some good things too.

40 posted on 11/11/2004 6:24:48 PM PST by Knitebane

To: stockpirate
Just because you claim my opinions are wrong doesn't make them so.

No, reality makes them so.

However, most would agree that Bill Gates and big Al are not two of the same type of businessmen.

Only the uninformed. Did you know that Bill Gates personally gave $100 million dollars to an organization that forcibly sterilizes people and forces abortions on women?

Evil enough for you yet?

Most who are anti-MS are those who do not have the ability complete lack of ethical values to do the same in the business world or any other world for that matter as MS and Bill Gates have done.

There, fixed it for ya.

41 posted on 11/11/2004 6:28:32 PM PST by Knitebane

To: Yo-Yo

That is sure a good idea......too bad MS won't be reading this.


42 posted on 11/11/2004 6:37:04 PM PST by pointsal

To: stockpirate
And MS did it first.

Let's see...UNIX was created in the 1960s. Microsoft came into existence in the 1980s.

What, precisely, are you claiming Microsoft did first? Hell, even the Windows GUI is nothing but a cheap knock-off of the Macintosh interface.

43 posted on 11/11/2004 7:59:07 PM PST by Prime Choice (Hey-hey! Ho-ho! Arlen Specter's gotta go!)

To: Knitebane
Bill Gates personally gave $100 million dollars to an organization that forcibly sterilizes people and forces abortions on women?

Just curious, what organization? Not that I don't believe ya, but we the rest of us will sure look dumb if we tell that to coworkers and they ask us the same question ;-)

-paridel
44 posted on 11/12/2004 11:40:53 AM PST by Paridel

To: Paridel
45 posted on 11/12/2004 11:47:56 AM PST by Knitebane

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.


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Redcloak
Since Aug 19, 1998
 
 
 

Skip to comments.

Microsoft warns of 22 new security flaws
CNET via ZDNet.com ^ | October 12, 2004, 12:28 PM PT | Robert Lemos

Posted on 10/12/2004 2:45:09 PM PDT by Redcloak

Microsoft on Tuesday published 10 software security advisories, warning Windows users and corporate administrators of 22 new flaws that affect the company's products.

The advisories, and patches published with the bulletins, range from an "important" flaw affecting only Microsoft Windows NT Server to a collection of eight security holes, including three rated "critical," that leave Internet Explorer open to attack. Microsoft's highest severity rating for software flaws is its "critical" ranking, while "important" is considered slightly less severe.

One flaw, in Microsoft Excel, even affects Apple Computer's Mac OS X.

The abundance of flaws could leave corporate PCs vulnerable to attack if administrators are not able to patch quickly. A similar situation occurred in April, when Microsoft published seven advisories detailing 20 flaws. While one security hole stood out among those 20--and led to the widespread Sasser worm--there are no standouts in the current gaggle of goofs.

"Our challenge is trying to guess what the criminals are going to attack," said Stephen Toulouse, security program manager for Microsoft's security response team. "The guidance we are giving in general is to treat the critical ones first."

A single computer would not be vulnerable to all the flaws, Toulouse added.

Oliver Friedrichs, senior director of Symantec's security response center, said three vulnerabilities could lead to a Sasser-like worm, but the danger is lessened by the fact that the vulnerable services are not started by default on most versions of Windows. These flaws are related to three network protocols that are not generally activated on Windows computers: Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP), Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP), and Network Dynamic Data Exchange (NetDDE)

(Excerpt) Read more at news.zdnet.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: EXPLOIT; GETAMAC; HACKING; INTERNETEXPLOITER; LOOKOUTEXPRESS; LOWQUALITYCRAP; MICROSOFT; MSFT; PATCH; SECURITYFLAW; TROJAN; VIRUS; VIRUSES; WINDOWS; WORM; WORMS
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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OK everyone... Let's all sing along:

Happy, happy, joy, joy,
Happy, happy, joy, joy,
Happy, happy, joy, joy, joy, joy, joy

Happy, happy, joy, joy
Happy, happy, joy, joy
Happy, happy, joy, joy, joy, joy, joy

1 posted on 10/12/2004 2:45:09 PM PDT by Redcloak

To: Redcloak
Just think of this as the Systems Administrators' Job Security Agreement: Buy Microsoft and you'll always have a job!
2 posted on 10/12/2004 2:47:09 PM PDT by bcoffey (Bush/Cheney: Real men taking charge, talking straight, telling the truth.)

To: Redcloak

Wow, wish I could figure out how to become a gazillionaire by producing a product that hasn't worked for 7 or 8 years. Everytime MS fixes one security issue another two pop up....but the bucks keep rolling in....what a great business!!!


3 posted on 10/12/2004 2:47:47 PM PDT by michaelbfree

To: Redcloak

I just downloaded and installed service pack II the other day. Damn thing messed up my mp3's (the one's I actually PAID FOR) to where they won't play on winamp or their stupid player.

This crap is getting old.


4 posted on 10/12/2004 2:48:14 PM PDT by FlJoePa (Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good.)

To: FlJoePa; Americanwolf

My suggestion to you (not trying to sound elitest) is try an Apple. I've had 2 years of no problem computing since moving to Apple.


5 posted on 10/12/2004 2:50:58 PM PDT by Americanwolfsbrother (Democrat: Noun; meaning: silly gullible person (The new Freep Dictionary)

To: FlJoePa

A friend of ours had to uninstall SP2 because her bank's online services wouldn't work with it. The uninstall then left a mess on her computer; including turning the messenger service back on so she, and her children, could enjoy all of that wonderful, pornographic messenger spam they'd been missing.


6 posted on 10/12/2004 2:52:25 PM PDT by Redcloak (Vikings plundered my last tag line.)

To: Redcloak

I patched my machines. It took under a minute. No problem.

Thanks, Microsoft!


7 posted on 10/12/2004 2:53:35 PM PDT by Poser (Joining Belly Girl in the Pajamahadin)

To: Redcloak

Which is why I have not loaded SP2. Mostly quit on IE. Firefox from mozilla works great - loads a bit faster that IE. Got me firewall at whatnot


8 posted on 10/12/2004 2:54:31 PM PDT by don-o (Stop Freeploading. Do the right thing and become a Monthly Donor.)

To: Redcloak
If builders built buildings the way that Microsoft wrote programs, the first wood pecker that came along would destroy civilization.

I HATE windows. Unix is far superior.
9 posted on 10/12/2004 2:55:16 PM PDT by appalachian_dweller (Threat Level: HIGH -- For a basic list of survival gear go to my FR Homepage.)

To: FlJoePa

Who needs hackers with Microsoft providing the same service?


I was also victimized by the sevice pack II. It took a week of running in safe mode and an XP reinstallation but I think I have it straightened out. I ended up uninstalling the service pack. I'll trust my own virus protection and firewall till microsoft gets thier crap fixed.


10 posted on 10/12/2004 2:55:41 PM PDT by cripplecreek (The economy won't matter if you're dead.)

To: Redcloak
There are plenty of non-Microsoft products listed here.

Funny that announcements of their security vulnerabilities aren't celebrated...

11 posted on 10/12/2004 2:57:44 PM PDT by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)

To: Poser

Same here. I've updated at least 10 separate machines with SP2 and all of the fixes since then, along with all my relatives updating theirs, and I've not seen one problem.

It doesn't matter who makes it all software requires updates.


12 posted on 10/12/2004 2:59:00 PM PDT by mle_ii

To: Redcloak

Oh good grief. I'm so tired of all these bleepin' patches. Why oh why doesn't MS create a decent product? And please, don't start with the "Mac" etc. stuff. I have to use MS because of software I use, which only runs on MS.


13 posted on 10/12/2004 3:05:47 PM PDT by MizSterious (First, the journalists, THEN the lawyers. :: Kerry promises, but Bush delivers!)

To: Chemist_Geek
There are plenty of non-Microsoft products listed here.

Funny that announcements of their security vulnerabilities aren't celebrated...

Not really. Once you get a reputation for having buggy, non-secure software, it takes a long time to overcome that.

Microsoft's reputation is well deserved. They will have to write very good software for years to overcome it.

14 posted on 10/12/2004 3:12:24 PM PDT by ProudGOP

To: Redcloak

Someone remind me what year Safe Computing is supposed to be here. I know it's supposed to happen sometime, because Bill Gates himself told us about it. I can hardly wait.


15 posted on 10/12/2004 3:16:24 PM PDT by savedbygrace

To: cripplecreek

Nearly every machine I have seen with a problem with SP2 turned out to be infested with adware/spyware from people surfing where they don't belong. Here is the patch MS created to get you past TVMedia which is a very annoying adware/spyware program.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?amp;displaylang=en.&familyid=65875203-CF1B-4D32-8F32-E00D004659F6&displaylang=en

After SP2 upgrades, I have seen that users machines are remaining clean of these adware programs and are not being overrun by adware/spyware/popups/trojans anymore.

I have tried Firefox for about a year now and it eventually locks up to where i have to kill it two or three times a day.

Tried Linux but there are no spreadsheet programs that will do the complex accounting I need and won't work with our ERP software.

Have a few Apples scattered about but the users usually wind up using Remote Desktop Client to connect to out Terminal Services Server to use Outlook for our office calendaring, scheduling, and shared contacts.

What works well for one may not meet the demands of your employer. Most people I help are not competent to use any PC regardless of OS.


16 posted on 10/12/2004 3:17:26 PM PDT by UseYourHead (This November, remember who the terrorists are voting for.)

To: MizSterious

"Why oh why doesn't MS create a decent product?"

Microsoft makes great products. Even with every hacker in the world trying to destroy them, they continue to excell.

I've been running Microsoft products on hundreds of computers for 22 years. The combination of features, price, software and security is far better than anything else on the market.

I make automatic backups of my sytems daily, but have never needed to restore anything because of security or software failures.

There is one thing I do that I find useful. I set my updates to manual. I have Windows notify me but I do the downloading and installation. It seems to work better than automatic updates. I'm not sure why, but I seem to have no problems when others complain.


17 posted on 10/12/2004 3:20:05 PM PDT by Poser (Joining Belly Girl in the Pajamahadin)

To: rdb3

ping


18 posted on 10/12/2004 3:20:17 PM PDT by sionnsar (Cbs: Tune in. Turn on. Ignore doubt | Iran Azadi | Traditional Anglicans: trad-anglican.faithweb.com)

To: Americanwolfsbrother
One flaw, in Microsoft Excel, even affects Apple Computer's Mac OS X.
19 posted on 10/12/2004 3:21:24 PM PDT by sionnsar (Cbs: Tune in. Turn on. Ignore doubt | Iran Azadi | Traditional Anglicans: trad-anglican.faithweb.com)

To: ProudGOP
Not really. Once you get a reputation for having buggy, non-secure software, it takes a long time to overcome that.

Common sense tells you that MS products are attacked more than others because they are the dominant applications. The more dominant, the more hackers are interested in breaking it.

If Mack's were as dominant we would be talking about them.

I refuse to use a Betamax when VCR's are the norm. The same goes with operating systems and anything else.

MS will never be spared attacks as long as they are on top. It goes with the territory, and it is everyones responsibility to prevent them, not just MS.

20 posted on 10/12/2004 3:21:48 PM PDT by Cold Heat (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545)

To: Poser
I have one currently unsolvable problem with my laptop ans SP-2.

I have an AMD processor, (apparently 64bit) that will not run SP-2. The computer refuses to boot.

I fully updated SP-1 and installed ZA for a firewall. It seems to be doing the job.

21 posted on 10/12/2004 3:26:37 PM PDT by Cold Heat (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545)

To: Cold Heat
22 posted on 10/12/2004 3:41:49 PM PDT by Truth666

To: Cold Heat
Common sense tells you that MS products are attacked more than others because they are the dominant applications.

That's partially true. The other piece to that is that hackers will attack systems that give them a good chance to defeat.

For example, last I knew, the majority of Web Servers on the Internet run Linux and Apache. However, most of the attacks we hear about are on systems running Micrsoft IIS. Common sense will tell you that the reason for that is because IIS is easier to circumvent.

I work as a developer. It is important for my software company to gain the trust of the users of our product. If we have a buggy release, this negatively impacts the trust in our software the users have. Once this happens, even if we fix all of the bugs, users will tend to believe there is a problem with our software whenever they encounter a result they didn't expect. It takes a long time before they start believing in the software again.

It is no different for Microsoft. They have the reputation of being buggy and not secure. They will have to work very hard to overcome this image.

23 posted on 10/12/2004 3:47:40 PM PDT by ProudGOP

To: Cold Heat
Common sense tells you that MS products are attacked more than others because they are the dominant applications.

Actually, common sense tells you that the more buggy the software the more bugs will be found. Anything else is wishful thinking.

While the theory that the more popular a piece of software is the more it will be exploited is often put forward but has been regularly and thoroughly debunked.

Apache is the most popular web server, yet it is exploited less than Microsoft's Internet Information Server.

Sendmail is the most popular mail server, yet it is exploited less than Microsoft's Exchange Server.

Microsoft software is exploited more because it has more bugs.

24 posted on 10/12/2004 3:50:07 PM PDT by Knitebane

To: Redcloak

I installed SP-2 on 4 machines; no problems. Sounds like you had *prior internal* problems, R.


25 posted on 10/12/2004 3:51:04 PM PDT by 7.62 x 51mm (• veni • vidi • vino • visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")

To: Redcloak
One flaw, in Microsoft Excel, even affects Apple Computer's Mac OS X.

Umm... NO. The flaw affects Microsoft Excel for Mac OS X.

26 posted on 10/12/2004 4:19:10 PM PDT by newzjunkey (Why are we in Iraq? Just point the whiners here: http://www.massgraves.info)

To: Poser
With an attitude like that we might as well welcome our new Democrat masters and accept the Mark of the Beast right now.

Always the imitator and charlatan, Microsoft, like rabid abortion-proponent Gates, is allied with evil and produces shoddy products, refuses to compete fairly, is nearly as skilled at propaganda as the Democrat Party.

They're morally and ethically barren from how they treat customers, to how they treat partners and innovators, to how they treat employees.

While their evil acts may have had seemingly positive incidental effects it does not justify the manner in which they've conducted business. The ends--yes, even all that pretty capital investors have stuffed their pockets with--cannot justify the means.

The unchallengeable ascension of Microsoft has harmed the industry immeasurably and stunted true innovation.

27 posted on 10/12/2004 4:31:59 PM PDT by newzjunkey (Why are we in Iraq? Just point the whiners here: http://www.massgraves.info)

To: Poser
I've been running Microsoft products on hundreds of computers for 22 years. The combination of features, price, software and security is far better than anything else on the market.

Yeah - in Haiti.

28 posted on 10/12/2004 5:24:24 PM PDT by HAL9000

To: Redcloak

Most corporations -- mine included -- will not allow installation of WinXP's Service Pack 2; it causes more problems than it fixes. All of the others are OK.


29 posted on 10/12/2004 5:26:47 PM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional.)

To: Knitebane
Fortunately,I do not have a clue about servers, nor do I need to.

My comment dealt with the home PC.

Everything done by hackers is to data manipulate or take over home PCs. Networks are usually well protected by excellent firewalls, but the PC hooked to it is the weakness. Get into it and plant a bot to allow access to the network and all is lost. It does not matter what kind of server you might have if the door is open.

They are then used to attack servers.(as in a DOS)

As I see it, it is the PC they are after, and MS owns that market in operating systems, applications and the like world wide. Why the hell bother attacking Macs.

BTW, most of the error messages that I get are Apache generated. That is the only reason I even know the name.

30 posted on 10/12/2004 6:29:59 PM PDT by Cold Heat (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545)

To: Cold Heat
I have an AMD processor, (apparently 64bit) that will not run SP-2. The computer refuses to boot.

Really? You running with Win32 or Win64? Can't imagine it would even attempt to install on Win64.

31 posted on 10/12/2004 6:44:26 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Got Wood?)

To: VeniVidiVici
It will load, and run in safemode, but it will not full boot.

I suspect it has something to do with SP-2s new security that identifies certain script operations.

The 64bit AMD uses these to process or something.

I have tried some workarounds to turn that portion of SP-2 off, but I have had no success.

They apparently know about it, but there are no solid fixes that I can use effectively.

I have quit trying, as I believe I can handle security in other ways without SP-2. The repeated restore sys. and deletions screw up the drive and the op system.

32 posted on 10/12/2004 6:54:13 PM PDT by Cold Heat (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545)

To: Cold Heat

Hmm. I have a couple AMD64s at work. I'll have to give this a shot tomorrow and see what they do. I know at least one is running Win32, but I may have W2K3 on there instead of XP.


33 posted on 10/12/2004 7:03:57 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Got Wood?)

To: VeniVidiVici
TheI missed part of your question:

I have the standard 32 program,(XP home)but the AMD processor has to run it in 64 so it does something with code to run it.

The SP-2 sees this as malicious code and refuses so the system fails with about 6 different codes on the beginning of bootup.

I would guess they won't share their code with MS or vice versa and all the suggested workarounds seem to fail to load. The Sys Ini file won't accept the language.

DUH! That is why I gave up. The whole thing rots my brain.

34 posted on 10/12/2004 7:04:51 PM PDT by Cold Heat (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545)

To: Redcloak

Real simple security fix. Use two computers. On that goes on line and one that does not (or rarely does if you need to do banking online).

Browse away on the first computer and then just format the hard drive every month.

The second computer, well, it is not on line so you don't need to worry about it.

At a company, no computer at an employee desks should have access to the internet through the company intranet. Instead, set up internet work stations where employees go to get what they need on the net.

That keeps them focused on getting what they need and getting of the net and back to work and it keeps the company system secure from the outside. If you have salespeople that need to access the company data base, simply upload and update to a system not connected to the intranet.


35 posted on 10/12/2004 7:09:17 PM PDT by BJungNan (Stop Spam - Do NOT buy from junk email.)

To: Cold Heat

Ok. This must be what they are talking about:

http://news.com.com/Windows+update+harbors+AMD+conflict/2100-1016_3-5326707.html?tag=st_lh

MS and AMD are in pretty tight with the AMD64 line of chips. I'd be surprised if one isn't telling the other something concerning a problem like this.


36 posted on 10/12/2004 7:31:53 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Got Wood?)

To: BJungNan
Real simple security fix. Use two computers.

LOL! I have a much more effective and less expensive way.

37 posted on 10/12/2004 7:47:42 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)

To: Redcloak

Here's my question. I'm still running Win2k SP2 (I'll install my Windows updates when *I* want, Mr. Gates, thank you very much), and it says that none of these only affect Win2K SP3 and SP4. Does this mean that they're ignoring SP2 or that SP2 is immune?


38 posted on 10/12/2004 7:49:34 PM PDT by Windcatcher

To: Windcatcher

...rather that they're listed as *only* affecting SP3/4...bah, can't type tonight...


39 posted on 10/12/2004 7:51:02 PM PDT by Windcatcher

To: VeniVidiVici
Yes, that is the problem I am having, but I do not have the Hollywood drivers. I will dump my other media players except for Real and Windows media and see if it has any effect.

I had not thought about video drivers for secondary progs.

It faults at the boot initiation, and that is where the vid drivers are likely to be.

The workarounds suggested in the article are the ones I tried to no avail.

It is possible that my monitor or vidcard is doing it. If it is I'm screwed on SP-2. That would be the laptop motherboard. I will start by disabling the various programs then delete them. If it is the DVD drivers, then Averatec needs to know. They also factory installed the DVD prgs.

I sent them a list of the error codes and have not heard from them yet.

40 posted on 10/12/2004 7:53:28 PM PDT by Cold Heat (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545)

To: VeniVidiVici
Just an update:

I did a total sys.search and could not find the driver "mpegport" anywhere in the system.

Next I read plenty of Tech material on this and what I discovered,is that it is likely a kernal level problem. It affects different machines in similar ways, but is not the same cause. Some pentium machines are also affected. I even found one guy who had the sameprocessor as I do anddid not have a proplem, but the machine config is different. Also, laptops with AMD stepping processors were most definately hurt by SP-2.

I think I will sit on it for now. There are so many versions of this same problem it is impossible to know the cause of mine. It may need a flash reprogram of the bios and new drivers for the chips for all I know.

here is a blog link on this situation. Long read!

http://blogs.zdnet.com/index.php?p=406

41 posted on 10/12/2004 9:06:39 PM PDT by Cold Heat (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545)

To: Cold Heat

Here is the problem and work-around for Athlon 64 and SP2 upgrade.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873155&Product=windowsxpsp2


42 posted on 10/13/2004 9:10:44 AM PDT by UseYourHead (This November, remember who the terrorists are voting for.)

To: UseYourHead
Appreciate the info, but I tried this fix even though my system is acting slightly differently.

I do not use Norton. I hate it with a passion. It is a virus sieve, not a filter, but I digress.

This problem illustrated here is but one of dozens. My system is locking up at the initiation of the boot sequence.It never even gets close to the login page. It is failing as soon as the processor finishes loading the Bios.

The problem seems to be that the processor drivers need to write something to memory and the SP-2 security is stopping the process at it's infancy.

It will boot in safe mode with all drivers turned off, and I have not been able to write or erase anything in the sys.ini or bootlog txt files as some of the fixes suggest. The machine does not recognise the commands. These fixes seem to be concerned with a driver that I do not have anyway.

It seems the mfgr is clueless as well.

I have already wiped the drive once as a result attempted repairs and I basically lost faith that this can be fixed without changing the processor drivers.

I posted a link above to a blog on this subject. There are many different problems exibited, with some being fixed and others not addressed yet.

I think I am in the latter category.

43 posted on 10/13/2004 10:02:05 AM PDT by Cold Heat (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545)

To: Redcloak
current gaggle of goofs BUMP
44 posted on 10/13/2004 11:07:17 AM PDT by LTCJ (CBS, all your Boyd Cycles are belong to us.)

To: Cold Heat

I just built an AMD 64 machine and put SP2 on it with no problems at all.


45 posted on 10/13/2004 11:13:00 AM PDT by js1138 (Speedy architect of perfect labyrinths.)

To: Redcloak

Linux is fun. Try it. You'll like it.


46 posted on 10/13/2004 11:15:35 AM PDT by ezoeni

To: Cold Heat
Fortunately,I do not have a clue about servers,...

Ok

nor do I need to.

Wrong. There is very little difference between Microsoft Windows 2000 Server and Windows XP at the layer where most exploits occur.

Everything done by hackers is to data manipulate or take over home PCs.

Wrong again. Banks, government agencies and high-visibility businesses are the usual target of attackers. They have the huge bandwidth and data of interest.

Networks are usually well protected by excellent firewalls, but the PC hooked to it is the weakness.

And more wrongness. Most firewalls are barely adequate, and most firewall rulesets have huge holes. Besides, a firewall doesn't protect a machine that you allowed access to.

As I see it, it is the PC they are after, and MS owns that market in operating systems, applications and the like world wide.

And you see it wrong. It's money, fame or private business data they are after. No one cares about your Microsoft Money data.

BTW, most of the error messages that I get are Apache generated. That is the only reason I even know the name.

BTW, most error messages handed out by web servers are telling you that you did something wrong.

Exploiters attack systems they know they can exploit. Why the hell bother attacking OpenBSD? It's a waste of time.

But attacking a Microsoft machine is likely to get somewhere, so that's where they hit.

Not because it is popular, but because it is possible.

47 posted on 10/13/2004 11:16:44 AM PDT by Knitebane

To: newzjunkey

They remind me a lot of the Galactic Empire from the Foundation series...except for that there isn't a Foundation around to pick up the pieces.

lol, I'm a nerd.


48 posted on 10/13/2004 11:23:52 AM PDT by Constantine XIII

To: js1138

aren't AMD 64's teh pwnz0r?!

I can run Unreal Tournament 2004 on my AMD 64 laptop with EVERYTHING maxed out at 800x600 with no perceptable slowdown, and I only have a 64 bit accelerator card! :)

When you turn everything up, it goes "Holy S***!" I about fell outta my chair. :)


49 posted on 10/13/2004 11:26:25 AM PDT by Constantine XIII

To: Redcloak

BTTT


50 posted on 10/13/2004 11:29:53 AM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))


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Microsoft warns of 22 new security flaws
CNET via ZDNet.com ^ | October 12, 2004, 12:28 PM PT | Robert Lemos

Posted on 10/12/2004 2:45:09 PM PDT by Redcloak

click here to read article


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To: js1138
I have a AMD opteron 12 stepper in a laptop.

It is the code for the processor that is causing the system to crash, I believe.I took the liberty of deleting all extraneous progs and it still crashed.

51 posted on 10/13/2004 1:00:16 PM PDT by Cold Heat (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545)

To: Cold Heat

Could be motherboard drivers.


52 posted on 10/13/2004 1:05:16 PM PDT by js1138 (Speedy architect of perfect labyrinths.)

To: js1138
Possibly.............

Right now, the consensus seems to be that folks with my situation to stay away from SP-2.

Many of the other glitches are being addressed and repaired. The maker of this laptop, "Averatec" and AMD appear to be clueless right now, because "opteron" servers are also being affected.

I am still waiting for word from the technical people at Averatec, but I am not holding my breath after reading some of the commentary on this.

If they need to re-write the drivers to accommodate SP-2, I understand why they are not amused.

53 posted on 10/13/2004 1:15:11 PM PDT by Cold Heat (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545)

To: Cold Heat

My daughter has an Averatec laptop. It certainly doesn't have an Operton, and I don't think she's put SP2 on yet.


54 posted on 10/13/2004 1:21:20 PM PDT by js1138 (Speedy architect of perfect labyrinths.)

To: js1138
My Dell blew up during the first debate.

It had been dropped few days earlier, the dog knocked it off the table, and the power connection was damaged but still functioning.

It erupted in multicolored flames while on my lap! LOL

Anyway, I went to walmart for a emergency replacement, and this was the only thing they had with 5oo+ Megs of memory and a wireless network card.

Not bad for under a thousand bucks, as the dream Dell I wanted was nearly 2600 bucks.

55 posted on 10/13/2004 2:01:30 PM PDT by Cold Heat (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545)

To: newzjunkey

"With an attitude like that we might as well welcome our new Democrat masters and accept the Mark of the Beast right now."

I'm sorry, but that's so silly that I can't even come up with a sarcastic response.


56 posted on 10/15/2004 7:21:13 PM PDT by Poser (Joining Belly Girl in the Pajamahadin)

To: HAL9000

"Yeah - in Haiti."

Wow, that was a snappy comeback.

If another software maker met the needs of consumers better than Microsoft, they would own the market. I used to use Visicalc, CP/M, Supercalc, Profile, Word Perfect, DbaseII, DbaseIII, DbaseIV, Clipper, Foxpro, Calcstar, Wordstar, DRDOS, QDOS, and lots of other programs and operating systems. I've tried Apple. I gave Linux a 2-year effort.

Microsoft is the best for me (and most others). It has the best mix of what I need for desktop computing and business software.

This irrational hatred of Microsoft reeks of Democrat-like hatred of big business. If you don't like Windows, there is nothing stopping you from providing a better operating system. There are lots and lots of good programmers out there and so far, they have failed to provide that product. When they do, I will buy it. Until that time, I will correctly note that Microsoft provides the best product mix for me (and most others).


57 posted on 10/15/2004 7:33:14 PM PDT by Poser (Joining Belly Girl in the Pajamahadin)

To: Redcloak
Please Support the GOP 2004 End Game!

The RNC: runs the all-around ground-game on Election Day (e.g., Get Out The Vote) AND the legal effort (anti-vote fraud measures)

https://www.donationreport.com/init/controller/ProcessEntryCmd?key=X1I6V1C9E8

John Thune for Senate: Daschle must go, but Thune needs $ for that final push against a well-financed, fraud-cushioned incumbent.

https://www.rapiddonor.com/JohnThune/

Majority Fund for America's Future: Funds/runs the campaigns in the tightest Senate races that need the most last-minute resources

https://donate.majorityfundforamerica.org/index.cfm?mode=account&category_meta_id=433

National Republican Senatorial Committee: Ground Game for the close Senate races + Presidential

https://donate.nrsc.org/index.cfm?mode=account&category_meta_id=150

National Republican Congressional Committee: Ground game for the close House races + Presidential

https://www.donationreport.com/init/controller/ProcessEntryCmd?key=K6X4V6F8B6

STOMP, the Strategic Taskforce to Organize and Mobilize People is a nationwide network of dedicated volunteers who have committed to assisting Republicans in our most competitive areas. By strengthening our Party in the most competitive areas, we will lead all of our Republican candidates to victory.

https://www.donationreport.com/init/controller/ProcessEntryCmd?key=Y6Y6P2I5B0

And, of course, GELAC, the Bush-Cheney '04 Legal Compliance Committee (fighting vote fraud, e.g.)

https://www.donationreport.com/init/controller/ProcessEntryCmd?key=I5B7P3F2B6

58 posted on 10/15/2004 7:34:04 PM PDT by jmstein7 (A Judge not bound by the original meaning of the Constitution interprets nothing but his own mind.)

To: don-o

No doubt, I refuse to touch SP2. I won't do it until my work computer gets it and works well for a few months. There's just too many problems.


59 posted on 11/09/2004 5:40:25 PM PST by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Gun-control is leftist mind-control.)


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TomServo
Since Mar 3, 1998
 
HAL9000
Since Sep 1, 1998
 
More low-quality crap on the way from Microsoft.
1 posted on 08/06/2004 3:04:19 PM PDT by HAL9000
 
 
 

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Microsoft Pushes Windows XP SP2 Out The Door
TechWeb News ^ | August 6, 2004 | Gregg Keizer

Posted on 08/06/2004 3:04:17 PM PDT by HAL9000

Microsoft released the long-anticipated Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) to manufacturing mid-day Friday, just two days after unknown delays temporarily stumped its wrap.

Although Microsoft's signed off on SP2 -- a major update to Windows XP that devotes considerable effort toward tightening up the operating system against security threats -- it's not yet offering the upgrade to end users.

SP2 will post for downloading next week, said Microsoft, but it's urging users to not flood the Windows Update servers by retrieving the approximately 80MB file on their own. Instead, the Redmond, Wash.-based developer is trying to convince users to let the patch come to them.

Thursday, Microsoft amended its Windows XP Web site to include instructions on enabling Windows' Automatic Update feature, which will then download the new version when capacity's available.

“The timing for customers to receive the Service Pack 2 download through Automatic Updates depends on a number of factors,” said Microsoft in a statement. “[That includes] the customer's Internet usage, location, language, and the level of Internet demand for Service Pack 2.”

For those without big bandwidth, Microsoft will also make SP2 available on CD, free of charge. The company will even pick up the shipping tab.

New machines featuring Windows XP SP2 won't appear until the September-October time frame, said Microsoft, which added that it is working with major manufacturers such as Dell, HP, and IBM to get the new edition on systems as soon as possible.

SP2's most discussed changes include a more rigorous approach to security, including stronger default settings and the new Security Center, an end-user console for monitoring bundled and third-party firewall and anti-virus defenses.

“We encourage Windows XP users to spend five minutes today to turn on Automatic Updates, thus ensuring they'll receive Service Pack 2 as it becomes available,” said Will Poole, who leads Windows client development, in a statement.



TOPICS:
News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: BUGS; LOWQUALITYCRAP; MICROSOFT; PATCHES; SERVICEPACK2; SP2; SPYWARE; VIRUSES; WINDOWS; WORMS
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More low-quality crap on the way from Microsoft.
1 posted on 08/06/2004 3:04:19 PM PDT by HAL9000

To: HAL9000
More low-quality crap on the way from Microsoft.

I take it you've already installed it and are having problems?

2 posted on 08/06/2004 3:07:20 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: HAL9000
SP2's most discussed changes include a more rigorous approach to security, including stronger default settings...

Wow, a stronger default setting. I bet that took all of two of three lines of code.

3 posted on 08/06/2004 3:10:10 PM PDT by Always Right

To: HAL9000
For those without big bandwidth, Microsoft will also make SP2 available on CD, free of charge. The company will even pick up the shipping tab.

Don't put yourself out, Bill.


4 posted on 08/06/2004 3:11:01 PM PDT by South40 (Amnesty for ILLEGALS is a slap in the face to the USBP!)

To: HAL9000
Yes but it is our crappy, poorly written help, no support, weekly updated, over priced, and memory hog Microsoft products.
5 posted on 08/06/2004 3:11:02 PM PDT by bmwcyle (<a href="http://www.johnkerry.com/" target="_blank">miserable failure)

To: HAL9000

By the time they get Windows XPletive into any kind of shape, I'll have taught myself how to use Linux.


6 posted on 08/06/2004 3:12:19 PM PDT by TheyConvictedOglethorpe

To: HAL9000

I look forward to this update. Windows XP is already an excellent operating system that has served me very well for going on 3 years now.


7 posted on 08/06/2004 3:17:35 PM PDT by ryanjb2

To: HAL9000

Reading some comments in another forum....the concensus seems to be that SP2 (beta version) slows down the computer too much. Several out of a dozen or so comments said they installed it and the uninstalled it for that reason.


8 posted on 08/06/2004 3:23:14 PM PDT by TomGuy (After 20 years in the Senate, all Kerry has to run on is 4 months of service in Viet Nam.)

To: TomServo

Hmm I must be one of the lucky ones. I've had Windows XP on our 2 home computers for almost 3 yrs and in all that time, only ONE crash a few months ago *knock on computer desk* And that was on the HP machine so its recovery console saved pretty much everything, just had to reinstall a few programs. The kids computer has yet to crash...go figure...


9 posted on 08/06/2004 3:23:19 PM PDT by Severa (I can't take this stress anymore...quick, get me a marker to sniff....)

To: Severa
Hmm I must be one of the lucky ones.

I haven't had my box crash since Win '98. And the last (and only virus) was then, also. I wonder what I'm doing so wrong so many others are doing so right? (/chortle)

10 posted on 08/06/2004 3:25:02 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: ryanjb2
Windows XP is already an excellent operating system that has served me very well for going on 3 years now.

Just got off the phone with someone who had their XP computer destroyed by spyware this morning.

11 posted on 08/06/2004 3:26:21 PM PDT by HAL9000

To: HAL9000

XP runs very well for me. So well, in fact, that there's no way in hell I'm going anywhere near this service pack after what I've heard about it.

XP SP1 works just fine, thanks.

}:-)4


12 posted on 08/06/2004 3:27:06 PM PDT by Moose4 (Remember, change your tagline every 3 months or 3,000 posts, whichever comes first.)

To: Moose4

The service pack works fine for me.


13 posted on 08/06/2004 3:28:30 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: Severa
If XP were the success some seem to think it is this long-awaited and massive security fix wouldn't be necessary.

If you've had little or no problems you were indeed lucky.

14 posted on 08/06/2004 3:29:56 PM PDT by South40 (Amnesty for ILLEGALS is a slap in the face to the USBP!)

To: TomServo
"I haven't had my box crash since Win '98. And the last (and only virus) was then, also."

I've had corrupted files once in a great while, but I Ghost my system partitions frequently. An SCSI HD was going bad once, but I have 2. And I don't install a bunch of stupid apps like a little girl. 2 firewalls. And I clean out the thing and make sure all the fans work.

15 posted on 08/06/2004 3:35:28 PM PDT by BobS

To: BobS
And I don't install a bunch of stupid apps like a little girl. 2 firewalls.

That'll cure a boatload of the problems with most of these folks. Ghosting is great, isn't it?

16 posted on 08/06/2004 3:39:41 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: HAL9000
More low-quality crap on the way from Microsoft.

And yet more FUD from a guy who doesn't even use the software on his desktop...
17 posted on 08/06/2004 3:41:52 PM PDT by Bush2000

To: TomServo
"Ghosting is great, isn't it?

Yep! No sitting or crawling around all night. And I have backup floppies for Ghost too! Images both on my 2nd HD and CDs.

Ready for war!:)

18 posted on 08/06/2004 3:45:46 PM PDT by BobS

To: TomServo

Actually YES!

SP2 will break several imporant applications and most of the 35,000 desktops at our corp. We will have to disable most of the security features in order to deploy it. (it does not like SMS2003.

this is the same crap they have pulled with server 2003. It works great. Untill you ask them how to securely run the server in a corporate environment. their answer... "Test it out and see".


19 posted on 08/06/2004 3:47:45 PM PDT by jbstrick (War is not fought for peace. War is fought for victory.)

To: ryanjb2
I look forward to this update as well. I have been running Windows XP also for three years and now have it on five boxes at home. It is the best operating sytem I have ever used and I have had nearly zero problems with it.

Virtually all my computer software is Microsoft and if it were possible, I would have a 100% Microsoft computer. It is an excellent company and I even own stock in it (looking forward to my first dividend check).

I regret that Microsoft has not gotten into other industries. For example, I'd like a Microsoft motor vehicle or a Microsoft refrigerator. But they don't make those things yet. So for now, I must suffer with what I have.

20 posted on 08/06/2004 3:48:48 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (High tide has passed and is running out for John Kerry)

To: BobS
It's very cool. I re-image once a week. I like a clean box (so to speak). I just keep my images on my server on a separate drive, of course.
21 posted on 08/06/2004 3:49:30 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: ryanjb2

Ditto. XP is great.

I guess admitting that doesn't get others' ya-ya's off as much as joining the crowd, ragging MS.

Dan


22 posted on 08/06/2004 3:50:02 PM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])

To: jbstrick
Actually YES!

Then I wouldn't deploy it.

23 posted on 08/06/2004 3:50:42 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: SamAdams76

Six boxes at our house, all great.

Dan


24 posted on 08/06/2004 3:53:37 PM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])

To: HAL9000

What spyware can destroy XP?

We remove adware and spyware all the time, I have never seen it destroy XP.


25 posted on 08/06/2004 3:54:10 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (Veritas vos liberabit)

To: TomServo; BobS
Most of the spyware and adware issues I have seen can all be traced to "free" software downloaded and purposely installed.
26 posted on 08/06/2004 3:56:26 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (Veritas vos liberabit)

To: ryanjb2

"..I look forward to this update. Windows XP is already an excellent operating system that has served me very well for going on 3 years now."

Ditto, from a former Mac fan. Since Win NT, I threw in the towel as a Mac man, and haven't looked back since.

-- Joe


27 posted on 08/06/2004 3:56:41 PM PDT by Joe Republc

To: CyberCowboy777
Most of the spyware and adware issues I have seen can all be traced to "free" software downloaded and purposely installed.

Exactly. I have an Aunt who can't help but click on every damned link (i.e. 'Click Here - You've Won [insert crap here]) on the I'net. She has to call tech support every other damned day.

She won't listen to me, though.

28 posted on 08/06/2004 3:59:07 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: HAL9000

He's not doing his homework. The simpliest way to avoid spyware is:

a) Install Spybot scan, repair and immunize then select advanced menus and go to IE tweaks to turn off the ability to change home page or access the options box. That'll thwart 99.99% of the spyware hacks.

b) Never ever download 3rd party shareware CODECS. These are being used as trojans for loading spyware.

c) Use Norton Firewall.

That should do it.


29 posted on 08/06/2004 4:04:29 PM PDT by kinghorse (http://www.demsextrememakeover.com/)

To: CyberCowboy777
"Most of the spyware and adware issues I have seen can all be traced to "free" software downloaded and purposely installed."

AND clicking on one of those stupid emails that look interesting. My browser was hijacked 2 months ago. I researched and found the 2 files and deleted them. Only buy stuff from well-established places.

30 posted on 08/06/2004 4:07:53 PM PDT by BobS

To: CyberCowboy777
We remove adware and spyware all the time, I have never seen it destroy XP.

Destroy it? No. But Cool Web Search is one of the nastiest. Spybot, Ad-Aware, CWS and many other spyware removal software cannot remove its latest variant.

31 posted on 08/06/2004 4:14:17 PM PDT by South40 (Amnesty for ILLEGALS is a slap in the face to the USBP!)

To: TomServo

Not going to. Since it would adversely affect your gasoline prices. =)


32 posted on 08/06/2004 4:14:29 PM PDT by jbstrick (War is not fought for peace. War is fought for victory.)

To: TomServo
*L* Exactly.

We got a nice setup here. Cable modem through a router. Got Zonealarm Pro ($30), AVG Antivirus (free), Spybot and Adaware (free), and Google toolbar (free) for the pop up blocker.

Cheap yet effective...

33 posted on 08/06/2004 4:17:14 PM PDT by Severa (I can't take this stress anymore...quick, get me a marker to sniff....)

To: TomServo
"I just keep my images on my server on a separate drive, of course."

Do you build you own? I do. Maybe I should upgrade from my 1 GHz CUSL2 MB, but the SCSI320 card handles everything but the memory. Can this handle Doom 3? My ATI video card records TV well in any format.

34 posted on 08/06/2004 4:20:47 PM PDT by BobS

To: BobS
Yeah - build my own. And I think you're gonna need some more horsepower to drive D3.

Minimum: P4 1.5Ghz CPU (or equivalent).
384MB of RAM.
64MB graphics card (see below for chip details).
2GB of free hard drive space.

Lowest supported GPU is a Geforce 4 MX (worse than Geforce 3).
Supported cards:
GF 4 MX.
GF 3.
GF 4.
GF FX (and higher).
Radeon 8500s, 9000s and higher.

35 posted on 08/06/2004 4:24:52 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: HAL9000

L8R


36 posted on 08/06/2004 4:33:59 PM PDT by Cacique

To: TomServo
I re-image once a week.

So that's why you haven't had a crash since '98!

Don't let that registry even think about fragmenting. ;-)

37 posted on 08/06/2004 4:48:00 PM PDT by TechJunkYard (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)

To: TechJunkYard

LOL - well, actually I only started imaging about 2 years ago.


38 posted on 08/06/2004 4:50:32 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: TomServo

My All-in-Wonder has the 8500 chip and works well. I guess I'll break down and get a 3GHz MB. I NEED 6 slots with full control per bios like my current ASUS. I have a client computer that needs a new MB anyway. I drilled through it a few years ago putting wheels on the case and repaired the traces, LOL. I have a long umbilical cord attached to it so it can roll around when I do "experiments". I download large files into it (like CDs and proggies) and test them there.


39 posted on 08/06/2004 4:53:44 PM PDT by BobS

To: TomServo
I have an Aunt who can't help but click on every damned link (i.e. 'Click Here - You've Won [insert crap here]) on the I'net.

I can think of at least two ways to fix that right off the top of my head.

40 posted on 08/06/2004 5:01:43 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)

To: TomServo

Heck, at 3GHz and the RF sidelobes I'll need another case too? Because of RF leakage? I like my tower. Should I get some copper mesh from work or anechoic absorber? My friend built one with a 1.4GHz and can't listen to the radio while online. The radio is jammed. I am a microwave engineer.


41 posted on 08/06/2004 5:01:44 PM PDT by BobS

To: ShadowAce
I can think of at least two ways to fix that right off the top of my head.

Me too:

1). Shoot her (not an option) or
2). Shoot her computer.

42 posted on 08/06/2004 5:04:03 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: BobS
Should I get some copper mesh from work...

Ahhh - the memories...

When I was stationed in Alaska (artic circle..) my room was about 300 feet from the radar. I used to have to do this exact thing to shield my Timex Sinclair...

43 posted on 08/06/2004 5:06:04 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: kinghorse

d) use a Mac!


44 posted on 08/06/2004 5:06:27 PM PDT by Wacka

To: TomServo
LOL!! OK, now I have three. I hadn't thought of shooting her.
45 posted on 08/06/2004 5:06:30 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)

Windows XP = Quality

Linux = freeware crap

46 posted on 08/06/2004 5:09:39 PM PDT by yellowhammer

To: ShadowAce
...and no - getting linux isn't an option, either. She'd stroke out as soon the damn thing booted.
47 posted on 08/06/2004 5:09:48 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: TomServo
Actually, that wasn't gonna be my suggestion.

I would suggest Firefox with AdBlock installed. Sit there for a half hour or so, surfing the net (instead of her). Block all those sites that host the images (doubleclick, etc). If she doesn't see them, she won't click on them.

48 posted on 08/06/2004 5:12:17 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)

To: ShadowAce
I would suggest Firefox with AdBlock installed.

That's cool - but I'm talking about the *links*. Not necessarily ads.

I don't know where she's surfin'. But she's takin' her Cadillac to Compton and gettin' stomped. Oh well - it's my cousin's problem. ;-)

49 posted on 08/06/2004 5:16:41 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: TomServo
A lot of those links are tied to the ads. AdBlock will block the whole thing. If the pic isn't there (and the screen will reformat itself to cover the space), then the link isn't there, either.

Works wonders for me.

50 posted on 08/06/2004 5:20:58 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)


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Microsoft Pushes Windows XP SP2 Out The Door
TechWeb News ^ | August 6, 2004 | Gregg Keizer

Posted on 08/06/2004 3:04:17 PM PDT by HAL9000

click here to read article


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To: ShadowAce
Next time I see her (she lives about 800 miles away), I'll ask her what she's runnin'.

Like she'd understand what I was asking her. (/Snicker)

51 posted on 08/06/2004 5:23:31 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, the Midvale police visit his locker and find out why they call him 'Buzz'...")

To: TomServo

I exceed all those requirements and still have stuttering, choppy video on Doom3. It is unplayable. Am in the process of getting the latest Radeon 9200 driver to see if that will help. Going to small screen and low quality video doesn't improve anything. Their ultra high resolution setting drove my box to the desktop. LOL That must take some cruncher.


52 posted on 08/07/2004 2:27:43 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)

To: gcruse
Choppy on my box as well:

Athlon XP 2200
Radeon 9200 128MB
512MB RAM
All the latest drivers

Carmack says you'll need a 512MB graphics card to handle full resolution, and those don't even exist yet. It'll be a cool game when hardware catches up next year. Kind of sad because I get up to 300 frames per second on Quake 3 at full resolution. I have to admit that the graphics and effects look pretty realistic though.

53 posted on 08/08/2004 11:55:05 PM PDT by sixmil

To: sixmil
Athlon XP 2200
Radeon 9200 128MB
512MB RAM
All the latest drivers


I just installed the Catalyst 8.03 upgraded drivers from ATI -- the choppiness is gone and the game play is smooth.
Medium resolution, recommended system options

Pentium 4 2.6GHZ
Radeon 9200 128MB
512MB RAM
54 posted on 08/09/2004 1:33:35 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)

To: ryanjb2; SamAdams76; BibChr; Joe Republc; All
For anyone who wants to download Windows XP-SP2, just follow the link below.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30-8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en

55 posted on 08/09/2004 7:19:29 PM PDT by COEXERJ145 (I Annoy Buchananites)

To: gcruse

Thnaks for the tip. I got the new driver and my choppiness is gone too.


56 posted on 08/09/2004 7:20:29 PM PDT by sixmil

To: COEXERJ145

Though that states it's NOT for single computer installations.

Regardless, I think I'll wait until it's been around at least a little while.

Dan


57 posted on 08/09/2004 7:21:30 PM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])

To: BibChr
Actually you can download it for single computers. They just don't want people sucking up the bandwidth. It hasn't blown up my computer yet.
58 posted on 08/09/2004 7:22:44 PM PDT by COEXERJ145 (I Annoy Buchananites)

To: Big Giant Head

.


59 posted on 08/09/2004 7:28:43 PM PDT by Marie Antoinette (The same thing we do every day, Pinky. We're going to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!)

To: HAL9000

Ah, the soothing sounds of OS holy wars here on FR.


60 posted on 08/09/2004 7:29:53 PM PDT by asgardshill (Jury Duty REJECT - Perfect 0 and 11 record stands.)

To: sixmil

:)


61 posted on 08/09/2004 7:33:01 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)

To: HAL9000

No way am I installing SP2 for a least a year and Microsoft gets the bugs out or until they stop servicing SP1 with critical updates. I don't need their popup blocker or their firewall, the ones currently installed work fine. And my browser is configured exactly the way I want it. No sense fixing something that isn't broken.


62 posted on 08/10/2004 11:35:46 AM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest


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the_Watchman
Since Aug 6, 1998
 
 
 
 

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Internet Attack Exploits Microsoft Software Flaws ( Internet Explorer vulnerable )
Reuters ^ | Fri Jun 25, 2004 08:25 PM ET | Duncan Martell

Posted on 06/25/2004 10:41:28 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Reuters

 

 
Internet Attack Exploits Microsoft Software Flaws

Fri Jun 25, 2004 08:25 PM ET

By Duncan Martell

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A potentially dangerous attack on personal computers by a virus designed to steal financial data and passwords from Web users rippled across the Internet on Friday, computer security experts said.

The attack, which surfaced earlier this week and is known as the "Scob" outbreak, exploits a vulnerability in servers using Microsoft Corp.'s IIS software and has been called more dangerous than the recent "Sasser" and "Blaster" infections.

The infected servers in turn exploit another vulnerability in Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser to install a Trojan Horse virus on the PCs of Web surfers who visit the infected Web sites, said Alfred Huger, senior director of engineering at Internet security company Symantec Corp.

"All of this takes place while it looks like you're viewing the same Web page," Huger said. "You don't even know that parts of your browser have been redirected to another Web site."

The U.S. Computer Emergency Readiness team warned on its Web site that "any Web site, even those that may be trusted by the user, may be affected by this activity and thus contain potentially malicious code."

The Trojan Horse places a keystroke logger on users' PCs and is designed to capture credit card numbers and passwords and send them back to a server in Russia, said Michael Murray, director of vulnerability and exposure at computer security firm nCircle Network Security.

By late Friday, however, the threat to users' personal data has been diminished, at least for now.

"The server appears to have been shut down in the last eight hours," Murray said. "We don't know if it was shut down by authorities or whether it was accidental."

The attack is more alarming than most because there are no patches available yet from Microsoft to fix the vulnerability in Internet Explorer that lets the hackers take control of computers, security researchers said.

On its Web site, Microsoft said users could search for the files "Kk32.dll" or "Surf.dat" to see if their PCs were infected. The company also suggested users set their browser security level to "high."

Experts also urged computer users to update their anti-virus software protection software

Most anti-virus software has been updated so that it can prevent the Trojan Horse from being installed, but because there is no patch yet available, there's no way to prevent future attacks to install the virus, Huger said.

"The truly alarming part is there is no patch available for that vulnerability," Huger said.



TOPICS: Extended News; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: GETAMAC; IEPROBLEMS; INTERNETATTACKS; INTERNETEXPLOITER; LOOKOUTEXPRESS; LOWQUALITYCRAP; SECURITYFLAW; TECHINDEX; TROJAN; VIRUSES; WHOOPS; WINDOWS
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1 posted on 06/25/2004 10:41:28 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Duplicate. See Also:
RIP, IE
2 posted on 06/25/2004 10:54:26 PM PDT by Boundless

To: Boundless

Well, let me amend that.
The other thread isn't a duplicate
of the report, but of the story.

Perhaps the key thing here is:
"The truly alarming part is there is no patch
available for that vulnerability,"

Even if you have an AV and a FireWall app (and
I do), because this exploit targetted "trusted"
sites, you may have let configured scripting
guard for reduced security for those sites, and
got hit - if you use MSIE.

Update your AV definitions tonite and run a
full scan.

It would appear that the only solution is to
use another browser, until MS releases more
secure code (or becomes a smaller target for
malware coders).


3 posted on 06/25/2004 11:01:13 PM PDT by Boundless

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Norton picks it up as "download.ject" and stops it from scripting, thereby rendering it harmless. I got hit with it twice in the last three days. It attacks only those web servers which have not applied a certain patch to IIS software. If you visit a website hosted on a server without the patch, and Scob has found that server, you're vulnerable to "download.ject" if your anti-virus software has not been updated to stop it from scripting.


4 posted on 06/25/2004 11:01:31 PM PDT by beckett

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"Agin'...dang!"
5 posted on 06/25/2004 11:05:51 PM PDT by hummingbird ("If it wasn't for the insomnia, I could have gotten some sleep!")

To: Boundless; ShadowAce; shadowman99

The other thread got moved to the blogger section which isn't as visible.

This is a sourced story so should ( I think ) stay in the news section which is currently seen by many more folks.

Thanks for putting the Link to that thread since there was a pretty decent discussion on browsers and in particular on Firefox, which I am using at the moment.

Seems to work OK, still need to do more customization of the options.


6 posted on 06/25/2004 11:06:40 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Attacks like this are the reason you should be using an active firewall. I use a NAT firewall in my router which blocks all normal incoming "probe" type attacks. However, firewalls will typically do nothing to prevent a trojan implant from a site which YOU visit.

A second line of attack is a firewall like ZoneAlarm [It is effective and it is FREE!]. The advantage of ZoneAlarm is that it will block messages being sent FROM your computer by untrusted software. You are forced to authenticate each application on your computer which sends messages.

If a trojan is installed, and if it collects private data, then it should still be blocked when it attempts to send the data back to the collection server.
*****
I keep my machines fairly up to date and my Norton virus protection very up to date. However, I visited a site supposedly selling equipment for the visually impaired. It looked legitimate. However, Norton did sound an alarm that a trojan was detected. Norton did NOT inform me that it had not prevented the infection. I didn't find out about the infection until the next scan two days later.

At the time of the scan, Norton was unable to delete the virus, which was running at the time. I could examine the virus enough to determine that it had been constructed in Russia at a firm started in 1991/2 to "monitor Russian legislation". [sure!]

I hand cleaned up the mess and found two collection files with email addresses that the virus had secreted away on my machine for later mailing.

The files installed, BTW, had randomized names so that searches on the executables did not produce any hits. Norton could not identify the trojan, it simply detected that an unidentified trojan was in operation on my machine.


7 posted on 06/25/2004 11:07:32 PM PDT by the_Watchman

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

BTTT


8 posted on 06/25/2004 11:09:18 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))

To: beckett

I switched from Norton to VCOM's System Suite and they use Trend's (I think it is )antivirus system.

I am also using the Firefox browser for awhile and see if I like it.


9 posted on 06/25/2004 11:12:26 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: hummingbird; HAL9000

Check out the link at #2.


10 posted on 06/25/2004 11:13:32 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: the_Watchman

I am running VCOM's system Suite 5 which has a firewall that detects in and Out.

Seems pretty good.


11 posted on 06/25/2004 11:17:49 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: Boundless

I wonder why it didn't bother me?

Oh ya, I'm using Firefox.


12 posted on 06/25/2004 11:26:19 PM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks...I'm a techno-dork so I saved it to my expanding "Computers and IT" favorites; tomorrow, I'll start the coffee and explore. You might get some FREEPMAIL as I wade through all of this! LOL...thanks, again!
13 posted on 06/25/2004 11:27:00 PM PDT by hummingbird ("If it wasn't for the insomnia, I could have gotten some sleep!")

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

How long has explorer been out? Seems like the software engineers at Microsoft are complete idiots if they can't put together a program without flaws within 15 years.


14 posted on 06/25/2004 11:29:28 PM PDT by Rudder

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I switched from Norton to VCOM's System Suite and they use Trend's (I think it is )antivirus system.

I use VCOM System Suite 5 as well, I think it's great. Yes, VCOM System Suite uses Trend-Micro's virus engine.

15 posted on 06/25/2004 11:52:48 PM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (John Kerry: An old creep, with gray hair, trying to look like he's 30 years old.)

To: BigSkyFreeper

I having been using Powerdesk forever and decided to try the whole suite.


16 posted on 06/25/2004 11:59:54 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Cool! I actually prefer Powerdesk to Windows Explorer. I had only wished I had stumbled upon Powerdesk ages ago.


17 posted on 06/26/2004 12:02:25 AM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (John Kerry: An old creep, with gray hair, trying to look like he's 30 years old.)

To: hummingbird

Shadowace is guy to ask if you have questions on Firefox or mozilla.

There is also a user forum at the websites for mozilla and Firefox.


18 posted on 06/26/2004 12:02:41 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: BigSkyFreeper

What browser are you running?


19 posted on 06/26/2004 12:04:02 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I had bought VCOM's System Suite because I was getting sick and tired of Norton's products, particularly having to subscribe to anti-virus updates. I really liked the SystemWorks product years ago, but System Suite had everything I wanted, without the need for subscription just to keep the antivirus up-to-date.

I can't find one thing that I don't like about System Suite. It's very powerful, and runs on both my 98 and XP machines.

20 posted on 06/26/2004 12:05:37 AM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (John Kerry: An old creep, with gray hair, trying to look like he's 30 years old.)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
What browser are you running?Firefox on both the desktop (98 machine) and the laptop (XP machine).
21 posted on 06/26/2004 12:06:14 AM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (John Kerry: An old creep, with gray hair, trying to look like he's 30 years old.)

To: BigSkyFreeper
Same complaints about Norton, plus it was always taking over the whole machine it seemed like.

CNET Article on the virus here:

Researchers warn of infectious Web sites

22 posted on 06/26/2004 12:15:55 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Same complaints about Norton, plus it was always taking over the whole machine it seemed like.

Exactly! When you uninstall it, it wouldn't uninstall everything properly and would give you a list of "cannot find *.exe file" error screens at bootup.

I laughed one time when I was fixing these errors on a computer network at the local insurance agent, and installed Mcafee and that installation package came up with an error box that said "we've detected stray files from Norton Anti-Virus exists on your computer, would you like us to get rid of these files?" and I clicked yes, and McAfee cleaned up Norton and successfully installed itself.

23 posted on 06/26/2004 12:23:29 AM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (John Kerry: An old creep, with gray hair, trying to look like he's 30 years old.)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Everyone should keep in mind that these vulnerabilities
are designed in, so that Gates and his Hollywood buddies
can spy on you. Over time, these situations can
be exploited by others.


24 posted on 06/26/2004 12:41:17 AM PDT by greasepaint

To: BigSkyFreeper

ROFL!

Symantec just picked up Powerquest so now I may need to look for a replacement for Partition Magic.

Although disks have really gotten inexpensive so not such a big deal now.


25 posted on 06/26/2004 12:44:27 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Although disks have really gotten inexpensive so not such a big deal now.

True. I'm going to get a second hard drive and the one I have now will be used as a backup drive.

26 posted on 06/26/2004 12:46:39 AM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (John Kerry: An old creep, with gray hair, trying to look like he's 30 years old.)

To: greasepaint

Well this little virus thingie may just get me to move over to Linux, since the browser is the big issue and Firefox seems to be working well for most of what I do, and it will run on Linux.


27 posted on 06/26/2004 12:47:21 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: BigSkyFreeper

I have a bunch of storage.


28 posted on 06/26/2004 12:49:03 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"Okily, dokily, neighbor." (Ned Flanders voice off)

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!
29 posted on 06/26/2004 1:24:19 AM PDT by hummingbird ("If it wasn't for the insomnia, I could have gotten some sleep!")

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; TexasTransplant; ShadowAce; martin_fierro; Pit1; delapaz; dyed_in_the_wool; ...
On Friday SEVERAL security experts were recommending people abandon MS Internet Explorer, and most recommended Mozilla/Firefox.
    ...security officials are still piecing together how Microsoft's Internet Information Services (IIS) servers -- widely used to host popular Internet sites -- became infected, passing the virus-like code onto other Web sites and Internet Explorer browsers.

    "Fully patched Explorer users are attacked at will, silently," Dunham said, adding that the effort appears to originate from a Russian group of "hackers for hire" who have a history of developing Trojans or malicious code that can steal credit card data and similar information that would later be sold for profit.

    Dunham [with the Internet Storm Center, added] that "Internet Explorer users should consider an alternative browser, at least temporarily.
    Mysterious New Threat Secretly Plagues Internet

Good advice from the experts...


And even if you are using Compuserve, AOL, or Earthlink etc, from some CD that was sent to you, it MIGHT actually be Internet Explorer with a different 'face' added to it.

I recommend users do NOT install OPERA as an alternative to IE at this time, since that appears to be a SPINOFF from IE. Note a sampling of the HTTP headers from Opera users all say they are compatible with various releases of MSIE (Internet Explorer), so they therefore are ALSO most likely corruptible by these Russian worms/trojans.
    (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1) Opera 7.11
    (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1) Opera 7.23
    (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0) Opera 7.50
    (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows XP) Opera 6.05
    (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98) Opera 7.20
    (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98) Opera 7.22

    ...here's AOL 9.0. Note it IS Internet Explorer, renamed and customized
    (compatible; MSIE 6.0; AOL 9.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)"

    ...by comparison, spinoffs from Netscape do NOT say "compatible; MSIE" in them...
    (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01"
    (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040206 Firefox/0.8"
    (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316"
Most people using Compuserve, AOL, or Earthlink etc, or ANYTHING that came from your ISP can still LOG-IN with THAT software, THEN MINIMIZE it, and then use Firefox.
30 posted on 06/26/2004 9:49:03 AM PDT by FL_engineer (FreedomLoving_Engineer)

To: TexasTransplant; martin_fierro
from another thread...
    We need a list from the Tech types, which browser will I be able to keep the longest, before the next mass infection, and while we are at it... email (simple please) I am changing both tomorrow, to what I don't know.
Well its hard to beat Firefox for features or security. I believe Microsoft refused to cooperate with the standards committee that developed javascript, so MS came out instead, with its own lousy javascript version that had lots of extra hooks and bugs and vulnerabilaties.

For all of us home users who are stuck with the Redmond operating system, I'd recommend trying to get ALL other software from SOMEWHERE ELSE for safety, NOT from microsoft.

I like the site nonags.com for very good open sourced software. These people for the most part ONLY recommend, test, and rank free software that does NOT NAG you for money to upgrade to a 'better version'.

If you need anything more commercial than that, I'd say the non-MS versions of software will be as good or better, and less virus-prone, than MS versions.

martin_fierro also had a good list of software for PC protection (except for the part about Opera).

Whichever email system you use.. BE SURE to turn OFF the reading of mail in HTML MODE. Read all messages in 'TEXT ONLY' mode or else you can be infecting your system JUST by reading a message (even without opening attachments).

Another reason to not allow HTML mode in your email reader, is that built-in images in the message (sometimes they're even invisible) will confirm to spammers that your email address is valid.

31 posted on 06/26/2004 9:52:09 AM PDT by FL_engineer (FreedomLoving_Engineer)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

BTTT for later.


32 posted on 06/26/2004 9:55:43 AM PDT by Brad's Gramma (God Bless America)

To: FL_engineer

Thanks, but I use Apple products only. Safari is my browser. Microsoft is a dirty word in this house.


33 posted on 06/26/2004 9:58:18 AM PDT by mass55th

To: beckett

Thanks, beckett...I am a computer dunce and don't know how to look for this invasion, but I do have Norton on auto update...Norton has never found a virus when it scans my files.


34 posted on 06/26/2004 10:01:03 AM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry's been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)

To: FL_engineer

Thank you


35 posted on 06/26/2004 10:05:29 AM PDT by BeforeISleep

To: FL_engineer

Well I don't what was causing problems on my computer this week

But I did want to beat the heck out of it with a baseball bat


36 posted on 06/26/2004 10:11:24 AM PDT by Mo1 (50 States baby .. I want all 50 States come November !)

To: Mitchell

Ping


37 posted on 06/26/2004 10:11:57 AM PDT by Allan

To: MEG33; Brad's Gramma

The move to Firefox is a very easy move, suggest you both look at it.

Shadowace had some good tips on the thread he started , now in the blogger chat area.

Link to it above here somewhere.

I am doing this right now under Firefox.

There are a few things to learn, but not many , use the right click on the mouse a bit more.

Firefox doesn't have the mail capability so is much smaller than IE.

If you are a big user of mail, then Mozilla has that.


38 posted on 06/26/2004 10:13:55 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: MEG33; Brad's Gramma

Link at post #2.


39 posted on 06/26/2004 10:16:07 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: FL_engineer

Thanks. Is there any way to tell if my computer has the virus? I ran a virus scan yesterday and it appeared that there was no problem(yet.)


40 posted on 06/26/2004 10:17:28 AM PDT by COUNTrecount

To: COUNTrecount
You may not have a virus. You may have spyware installed on your box. Try running this. It's highly rated:

Spybot

Here's another great tool:

Ad-Aware
41 posted on 06/26/2004 10:22:39 AM PDT by Bush2000

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Yeahhhhhh, quality product /SARCASM

169 Critical Firefox bugs

Where Do You Want To Crash Today(tm)?
42 posted on 06/26/2004 10:23:44 AM PDT by Bush2000

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Get Thunderbird     Click the button to learn about email that's much safer than Outlook. Firefox's companion, Thunderbird.
43 posted on 06/26/2004 10:26:08 AM PDT by Eagle9

To: FL_engineer
I recommend users do NOT install OPERA as an alternative to IE at this time, since that appears to be a SPINOFF from IE. Note a sampling of the HTTP headers from Opera users all say they are compatible with various releases of MSIE (Internet Explorer), so they therefore are ALSO most likely corruptible by these Russian worms/trojans.

What do the headers have to do with anything? I see no reason to believe they mean that MS software exists behind them.

44 posted on 06/26/2004 10:35:18 AM PDT by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)

To: FL_engineer

Thanks for the information!


45 posted on 06/26/2004 10:46:00 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl

To: MEG33
Norton will flag you if it detects "download.ject." Otherwise you're OK.

After it was detected on my machine I checked at Symantec and found the names of the two registry keys that "download.ject" writes and searched the registry for them. They were not there. I also searched my hard drives for Kk32.dll and Surf.dat. Again, nada. So it seems Norton successfully slams the door on this thing.

46 posted on 06/26/2004 10:49:49 AM PDT by beckett

To: COUNTrecount; Bush2000; martin_fierro; Mo1; MEG33; Brad's Gramma; Ernest_at_the_Beach

I cannot verify who owns the website that Bush2000
recommended for getting Spybot (security.kolla.de)

One WHOIS service shows NO REGISTRANT.
Another WHOIS service shows "INVALID"

Spybot Search and Destroy is a VERY good program and I
highly recommend it for cleaning up a system...

The official site, registered by the author of SPYBOT is
http://www.safer-networking.org/index.php?page=spybotsd

I don't know that Spybot will catch this bug yet.
So far, I've only heard that the Symantec tools can find it.
I also see post #46 has some more info



To: Bush2000, you keep trying to bash FIREFOX
on all these threads. You seem to work for microsoft.
Why don't you tell us what you recommend, instead of
just throwing out bombshells.

However, thanks for pointing out that the total list of
known bugs in FIREFOX is MINOR, and does NOT include any
that mention WORMS, TROJAN, or any VIRUS.

Its too bad your company tries to keep all its dirty laundry
secret for as long as possible.



To: martin_fierro

I can't verify who owns that australian site you are
sending people to to get Spybot S&D either.

Something that important should only be obtained from
a known reputable source, IMO

I used DNSSTUFF.COM to look these things up.
FLE


47 posted on 06/26/2004 11:21:36 AM PDT by FL_engineer (FreedomLoving_Engineer)

To: supercat

>>I see no reason to believe they mean that MS software exists behind them.

You 'might' be right. I might have been premature, because
I do not KNOW that Opera is a licensed repackaging of microsoft's IE.

However, their headers indicate they are COMPATIBLE with
IE. Therefore if the security bug is systemic to one of
the javascript commands that is unique to MS's definition
of javascript, then it COULD have the same problem.

I had not heard ANY security experts recommending opera
yesterday, but did hear of some recommending Mozilla/Firefox.
And some specifically said the bug does NOT affect
the later pair.


48 posted on 06/26/2004 11:28:51 AM PDT by FL_engineer (FreedomLoving_Engineer)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I've been using the Mozilla browser for over a year now, which came with e-mail, and html editor. I love it. Yes, it had some bugs dealing with graphic files, but it's otherwise been stable and secure.

Before I switched from IE to mozilla, my weekly ad-aware and spybot scans would turn up an average of 50 spyware cookies.

Since the switch, the weekly scans might turn up 1 or 2 spyware cookies.

Regarding a switch to linux, I've been considering switching too, but still keeping windows as a partition for local work only.

49 posted on 06/26/2004 11:32:09 AM PDT by Vigilantcitizen

To: FL_engineer

> I recommend users do NOT install OPERA as an
> alternative to IE at this time, since that
> appears to be a SPINOFF from IE.

Unless there is evidence of an actual Opera user
being compromised during the current infection
cycle, I'd tend to dismiss the above as being
unsupported speculation.

> However, their headers indicate they are
> COMPATIBLE with IE.

I'd be more inclined to think that the headers
are spoofed so that Op users have less trouble
with bozo sites that claim to be MSIE-only, not
because they're hard-coded to some MS'ism, but
just because that's all they tested against.


50 posted on 06/26/2004 11:52:05 AM PDT by Boundless


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Internet Attack Exploits Microsoft Software Flaws ( Internet Explorer vulnerable )
Reuters ^ | Fri Jun 25, 2004 08:25 PM ET | Duncan Martell

Posted on 06/25/2004 10:41:28 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

click here to read article


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To: FL_engineer

Might as well go all the way to freedom and security with Linux!


51 posted on 06/26/2004 12:03:21 PM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll

To: FL_engineer

Thanks. I use Opera, personally. Rather nice and you can block pop-ups, animations, whatever ticks you off.


52 posted on 06/26/2004 12:06:25 PM PDT by phenn (http://www.terrisfight.org)

To: Bush2000

Thank you. I ran Spybot yesterday and got rid of everything that was flagged.


53 posted on 06/26/2004 12:08:52 PM PDT by COUNTrecount

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Well this little virus thingie may just get me to move over to Linux, since the browser is the big issue and Firefox seems to be working well for most of what I do, and it will run on Linux.

Good idea! Depending on what other Windows software you typically use, you can usually either find an acceptable substitute or run the actual Windows program under WINE.

I haven't used Windows in many years. The only thing I miss is MS Flight Simulator. There is a Linux/UNIX flight sim, but it's not as good.

54 posted on 06/26/2004 12:14:28 PM PDT by B Knotts

To: FL_engineer
On Friday SEVERAL security experts were recommending people abandon MS Internet Explorer, and most recommended Mozilla/Firefox.

Yesterday, I deleted dozens of trojans/malware, and consequently, I recommended Firefox to myself. The bad programs tired me out.

"Fully patched Explorer users are attacked at will, silently,

I can testify to that. It took a few minutes to find what was spawning the bad programs and the 'parent process' always pointed to Internet Explorer. I came to the obvious conclusion as these experts did, an IE security leak.

55 posted on 06/26/2004 12:39:29 PM PDT by demlosers

To: FL_engineer
Thanks for the link - sweating on the porch with a new laptop and have just read of the latest MicroSoft "bug".

From FireFox (with love),

Charlie

56 posted on 06/26/2004 12:41:22 PM PDT by Tunehead54 (Have a nice day or else!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

BTTT!

Everyone needs to read this!


57 posted on 06/26/2004 1:18:19 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)

To: FL_engineer

Thanks for the ping! I'll check out these links.


58 posted on 06/26/2004 2:04:10 PM PDT by NRA2BFree (Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.)

To: FL_engineer

Firefox and Thunderbird are now installed, everything went smooth except for maintaining my website (with Homestead), which wanted me to Install Netscape Plugins, I sent off a message to tech support and will maintain the website w/ IE until I hear back.

Painless, easy

Thank you


59 posted on 06/26/2004 3:45:30 PM PDT by TexasTransplant ("You know, I think the best possible social program is a job" Ronald W. Reagan)

To: FL_engineer
Thanks.

But I honestly don't know what to do next. My version of Norton Anti Virus isn't supported, my yearly subscription is almost up, I have a trojan in quarrantine, and I was wondering if I can install new Norton disks. I'm sure I have adware on my computer, maybe spyware (who knows?), and my search button has been hijacked by a different search engine - I had MSN - with no way to switch it back. I've been invaded, but the computer's still working. And I don't like the look of the Firefox Browser (too busy).

I know enough to know I don't know what to do! Yikes!

Time for a new CPU, I think.

60 posted on 06/26/2004 6:16:07 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: FL_engineer

Is this related to the blue apple that looked harmless?


61 posted on 06/26/2004 7:17:56 PM PDT by floriduh voter (http:// www.conservative-spirit.org (FV) http://www.jangovan.com/ to Defeat Greer)

To: Lauren BaRecall
Found a website that might help, haven't used it before though:

Newbie Help Forum

Found it using google and " trojan in quarrantine, " phrase.

62 posted on 06/26/2004 8:28:56 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: Lauren BaRecall
Has a search facility of its site using google. Found this:

Something odd happening with your computer?

Using this search "removing virus" search argument/.

63 posted on 06/26/2004 8:38:48 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: Lauren BaRecall
And there is this:

_______________________________________________________________

Free Trojan Removal Info
Free guide on understanding common
computer virus symptoms and causes.
www.infobert.com

64 posted on 06/26/2004 8:40:29 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: All
Here is a discussion on a Forum regarding removing a specific trojan...:

AUMHA FORUMS

65 posted on 06/26/2004 8:48:10 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: All
This takes one to , I think the home page:

SOLUTIONS FROM THE TRENCHES
Answers that worked from AumHa Forums

66 posted on 06/26/2004 8:58:28 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: All; *tech_index
Another Forum:

SpywareInfo (forum )

67 posted on 06/26/2004 9:13:02 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: FL_engineer

I'm so glad for this post about Firefox. I've now got it downloaded and enjoying it.

It really is faster than IE.


68 posted on 06/26/2004 9:22:13 PM PDT by Cedar

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I just spent time online last week with the tech guy at Spyware Info, getting rid of a trojan. Finally got it conquered with his help --it's a great site for spyware help.


69 posted on 06/26/2004 9:27:00 PM PDT by Cedar

To: Cedar; Lauren BaRecall

Very good info... I just discovered it with Google in responding to Lauren BaRecall .

Seems to me that is the place to start.

What about the hijack package...that is new to me.

I have Spybot, just ran it.


70 posted on 06/26/2004 10:11:58 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: B Knotts
Is the flight simulator to which you refer FlightGear?
71 posted on 06/26/2004 10:24:53 PM PDT by Philip_the_evangelist

To: dakine

Did you see this??


72 posted on 06/27/2004 12:27:31 AM PDT by codyjacksmom

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Thanks...I need to get an education for use of my computer!


73 posted on 06/27/2004 1:05:21 AM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry's been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)

To: Philip_the_evangelist

Yes. It's OK, I suppose, but isn't anywhere near as good as MS Flight Simulator.


74 posted on 06/27/2004 6:34:34 AM PDT by B Knotts

.


75 posted on 06/27/2004 6:36:02 AM PDT by BeforeISleep

To: 2111USMC

ping


76 posted on 06/27/2004 9:45:44 AM PDT by iowamomforfreedom (The right to die? or the right to be killed - http://www.life-or-death-decisions.org)

To: FL_engineer

What I use to read email is Mailwasher. It reads emails only by TEXT method. I purge about 95% of my emails, before Outlook gets ahold of them.
And mailwasher has a FREE version of it!
Here is the link.
http://www.mailwasher.net/


77 posted on 06/27/2004 9:54:36 AM PDT by ktw (kakkate koi)

To: MEG33
Me too. Spybot and that website Spyware Info seem to be the way to go.

I still have some unexplained mysteries on my machine.

Getting geared up to try Linux.

78 posted on 06/27/2004 11:20:12 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks a million!

I have to take a night to sit down and read and figure this out. In addition to your links, I picked up a couple a few weeks ago. I just haven't had the time....

Here's one I found:

Spybot

A friend of mine told me that it doesn't catch everything, though. Have you ever tried it?

79 posted on 06/27/2004 1:02:45 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Well, I could go back to school for this, or I can figure it out. Figuring it out is a whole lot more fun, though. Aggravating fun - but that's the best kind! :oD
80 posted on 06/27/2004 1:05:53 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I have Spybot, just ran it.

Ah, just saw that.

81 posted on 06/27/2004 1:07:13 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: FL_engineer
I recommend users do NOT install OPERA as an alternative to IE at this time, since that appears to be a SPINOFF from IE. Note a sampling of the HTTP headers from Opera users all say they are compatible with various releases of MSIE (Internet Explorer), so they therefore are ALSO most likely corruptible by these Russian worms/trojans.

Actually, that's a strategy to fool web sites that try to block browsers that _aren't_ IE. Headers mean almost absolutely nothing these days since the newer browsers let you fake your headers to avoid site lockouts.

82 posted on 06/27/2004 1:15:42 PM PDT by bobwoodard

To: Lauren BaRecall

See my post #78 to Meg33.

Looks like at the Spyinfo website they have a good methology to get someone started to clean the machine without starting over totally or buying a new machine.....course if you have an old one and the money ....might be smart to get a new fresh machine .... but it is almost a philosophy thing.

Said I was gonna start on Linux but I thing my newest video card, an expensive ATI all in wonder 9600xt pro just went bad.

Hmm....


83 posted on 06/27/2004 3:03:41 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)

To: FL_engineer

Opera is mozilla based, is it not?

Opera is excellent.


84 posted on 06/27/2004 3:37:01 PM PDT by TaxRelief (Keep your kids safe; keep W in the White House.)

To: bobwoodard; TaxRelief; supercat; Boundless; martin_fierro; phenn; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ...
    Actually, that's a strategy to fool web sites that try to block browsers that _aren't_ IE.
Thank you! That answer makes sense.
I withdraw any implied criticism, or reservation I had of Opera.

While I don't find any evidence that Opera is Mozilla-based, it does seem that it is more in alignment with the Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox folks than with Redmond Washington billionaires...

    Mozilla Foundation and Opera Software Describe Joint Vision for Web Application Framework
    Tuesday May 25th, 2004

    The Mozilla Foundation and Opera Software have published a paper outlining their vision for Web applications. The paper, submitted in preparation for next week's W3C Workshop on Web Applications and Compound Documents, describes a device-independent Web application framework based on HTML and backwards-compatible with existing Web content. The two organisations are keen to get parts of this framework in place soon to prevent a single-vendor solution (see Microsoft's position paper) becoming dominant.


85 posted on 06/27/2004 4:19:16 PM PDT by FL_engineer (FreedomLoving_Engineer)

To: FL_engineer

I said

Firefox and Thunderbird are now installed, everything went smooth except for maintaining my website (with Homestead), which wanted me to Install Netscape Plugins, I sent off a message to tech support and will maintain the website w/ IE until I hear back.

Painless, easy

Thank you

What a difference a day makes,  I am back to IE, (everything was working fine until my Firewall decided Firefox was an issue, next thing I know all of my settings are changed, my IP rejected any attempt to log on, down hill from there)

I uninstalled my Firewall, tried to re-install Firefox and had the same problems.

I am still using Thunderbird (I like it too, and I still like Firefox) but until the new Firefox comes out I will continue to use IE and patch and update for protection.  For a day it was good, I was a happy camper and I hope the new edition of Firefox can deal with the Firewall issue.

Thanks again

TT


86 posted on 06/27/2004 5:45:48 PM PDT by TexasTransplant ("You know, I think the best possible social program is a job" Ronald W. Reagan)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Spyware Info has a great tech forum. The guy had me download "HiJack This" plus do some other stuff with various files.

It was a great learning experience ( I had never dealt with a "trojan" before--it was stealing/hijacking my cursor). He gave very clear instructions, and we finally got rid of it. And all of this help was free!

It's a great site if you are having any problems with your PC, or even if you want to just learn about spyware, trojans, etc.

The program "HiJack This" is a good thing to have (it's free too). But before you use it to delete anything, it's best to post your log file of it to the forum board and let one of the tech guys tell you what to delete and what not to delete (unless you already are a techie yourself and don't need them to tell you).


87 posted on 06/27/2004 7:51:37 PM PDT by Cedar

To: FL_engineer
88 posted on 06/28/2004 10:25:28 AM PDT by TaxRelief (Keep your kids safe; keep W in the White House.)

To: B Knotts

I haven't tried it so I wondered when you mentioned an unnamed open-source simulator. Of course, it's still at version 0.9.4 and has a lot of catching up. What specifically did you not like about it?


89 posted on 06/28/2004 5:25:45 PM PDT by Philip_the_evangelist

To: Lauren BaRecall
    A friend of mine told me that [Spybot] doesn't catch everything, though. Have you ever tried it?

I have tried it. I'm trying to get rid of something that got into IE that causes pop-ups on sites where there are no pop-ups. I've tried Ad-aware, spybot, CW-Shredder, and a full Norton scan. Whatever this adware thing is, it's still there. I only use IE for testing my own web sites, so it's not that big a deal... but I don't know what else the #%%$@* thing might be doing, so I want to get rid of it. So far no luck.

90 posted on 06/28/2004 5:38:31 PM PDT by Nick Danger (doo waddie diddy diddy dum diddy doo)

To: Philip_the_evangelist

It crashed/froze a lot, and, at least at the time, the scenery was not as good.


91 posted on 06/28/2004 6:28:28 PM PDT by B Knotts

To: Lauren BaRecall
"I picked up a couple a few weeks ago. I just haven't had the time...."

Should you change your dating habits? LOL- I can't resist:):):)

92 posted on 06/28/2004 6:54:47 PM PDT by BobS

To: B Knotts

OK, now you have me curious. Under what OS were you running it and what version of the simulator were you using? The website says the entire scenery set occupies 11 CDs which sounds like either a LOT of low quality stuff or a decent amount high quality stuff. The disk map shows practically all land areas covered as well as significant oceanic areas.


93 posted on 06/28/2004 6:57:52 PM PDT by Philip_the_evangelist

To: Lauren BaRecall
I'm no Windows expert, but try Lavasoft's AdAware. Be sure you go to http://www.lavasoftusa.com/ or http://www.lavasoft.de/. They have a free version you can download, which will find most of these pop up ads, spybots, and trojans. It is not an anti-virus tool strictly speaking, and it really should be used in conjunction with something like Nortons or McAfee, but it can be a big help in a pinch.
94 posted on 06/28/2004 7:06:25 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (This dog bite me)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Hey yall I have a question. I have been invaded by much of this spyware, trojans malware etc. One day my cd-rom opened up by itself! I almost flipped out, no joke.
I had popups everywhere and my google searches were messed up. I have spybot and ad-aware. When I first used them with the latest updates it didn't get rid of the google problem I was having.
Two days ago I updated spybot and ad-aware fixed my search engine problem finally yay!
My question is I still have these weird things on my desktop called o , bs5-nt15v , silent?
Do I have to wait for another update for ad-aware to get rid of these things?
Also I disabled my internet explore active x, java so is this good enough or do I still need firefox?
I use netscape is that better?


95 posted on 06/28/2004 7:29:53 PM PDT by snowstorm12

To: snowstorm12

Get Spyware Blaster. It prevents these things from being downloaded.


96 posted on 06/28/2004 7:34:54 PM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)

To: Nick Danger

I was speaking to the same friend today, and told him about this thread. In the course of conversation, he said that sometimes the only way to get rid of something is to save to disk what you know you want to save, and uninstall *everything* else. Even the OS. Then you take your original disks and reinstall the OS and all your programs, etc.

I told him that I'd never even THINK of attempting that alone! LOL!

In the meantime, I bought Norton SystemWorks 2004 Professional. I decided that will be my first step (but not tonight).

Anyway, you may have to clean off the whole disk, as my friend discussed.


97 posted on 06/28/2004 8:14:34 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: BobS

Yes! I should find men who know about computers! LOL!


98 posted on 06/28/2004 8:16:40 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall

I've had to do this. My wife and I cleaned off a friend's computer that had so many popups and things that it was unusable. We had to put in a second hard drive, loaded Windows on it, and cleaned the original hard drive from there. After that we were able to boot from the original hard drive and run nortons and stuff.

Sometimes you have no choice but to reload from scratch, though.


99 posted on 06/28/2004 8:18:20 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (This dog bite me)

To: Liberal Classic

Thanks very much for the links. :o) I bookmarked both of them. I'll do SystemWorks first. Then I want to look at all the links I've collected, and then decide the order in which I want to try them.

Actually, I'm looking forward to tinkering with all of this stuff. :o)


100 posted on 06/28/2004 8:31:13 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)


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Internet Attack Exploits Microsoft Software Flaws ( Internet Explorer vulnerable )
Reuters ^ | Fri Jun 25, 2004 08:25 PM ET | Duncan Martell

Posted on 06/25/2004 10:41:28 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

click here to read article


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To: Liberal Classic
I've had to do this. My wife and I cleaned off a friend's computer that had so many popups and things that it was unusable.

It's amazing that so much can amass on a computer, that it grinds to a halt. Recently, I was hit by such a swift succession of popups, that I looked at "View - Source" and saw that it came from a timed popup program. When it happened again, the popups came up faster than I could close them, and my computer froze. I had to reboot to get going again. I know I have a bunch of garbage - I just don't have enough experience to find it.

That was good of you and your wife to help out that way. I find in general that computer people are very generous with their help. Good thing for junior geeks like me. :oD

101 posted on 06/28/2004 8:42:42 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: beckett
I have my browser set to alert me to all attempted downloads and require permission. I've always wondered if this was protection enough. Surprising how many sites try to download.

And if spyware is a risk, then by all means avoid Drudge's site. He drops anywhere from 3 to 7 spyware programs into your computer per visit.

102 posted on 06/28/2004 8:45:30 PM PDT by BJungNan (Stop Spam - Start Charging for Email - You get 2000 a month for free, then you pay!)

To: Philip_the_evangelist

I just fired it up, and peeked at their web site, for the first time in a long time. Looks like the scenery has improved, but for some reason, on this particular machine, it freezes up. I think it might be my ancient joystick.


103 posted on 06/28/2004 9:23:20 PM PDT by B Knotts

To: Philip_the_evangelist

Incidentally, this is version 0.9.3 running on Debian sid (unstable) on a very old machine with a Matrox G400.


104 posted on 06/28/2004 9:24:58 PM PDT by B Knotts

To: Lauren BaRecall
I bought Norton SystemWorks 2004 Professional.

Super. Now back your files, up. Reinstall Windows (i.e. Clean install), reinstall whatever files you want, install Systemworks and Ghost your machine. But only if you have a CD burner (that's supported by Ghost) or a second HD installed.

I promise you - it'll be well worth it. BTW - read the instructions on Ghosting...:-)

105 posted on 06/28/2004 9:30:10 PM PDT by TomServo ("I'm so upset that I'll binge on a Saltine.")

To: TomServo
But only if you have a CD burner (that's supported by Ghost) or a second HD installed.

Ok, only one HD, yes to CD burner, but I haven't a clue if it's supported by Ghost.

Yikes! Are you advising me to do what my friend told me about? :oO

106 posted on 06/28/2004 10:06:20 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall
Actually, I'm looking forward to tinkering with all of this stuff. :o)

That's the spirit! :)

107 posted on 06/28/2004 10:06:38 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (This dog bite me)

To: BJungNan
And if spyware is a risk, then by all means avoid Drudge's site. He drops anywhere from 3 to 7 spyware programs into your computer per visit.

Very good to know! And he has the nerve to go on and on about the Patriot Act!

108 posted on 06/28/2004 10:10:22 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Liberal Classic

:oD


109 posted on 06/28/2004 10:11:17 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall

Don't let the computer get you too frustrated, and they can be. I've been working with them for a long time, and they still get my goat sometimes. It helps to remember that ultimately, it's nothing but a really fast adding machine. Have fun!


110 posted on 06/28/2004 10:16:34 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (This dog bite me)

To: Liberal Classic

I don't see it as frustrating as much as scary. I realize my knowledge is limited, and I don't want to wreck the darn thing. If I bite off little chunks of tasks, and go slowly, then I can relax.

In the beginning, I was a little afraid to even go near my computer, but then I realized that I had nothing to fear, as long as I didn't hit Delete any time I was unsure. I guess the same philosophy still applies!

Much thanks for your encouragement.


111 posted on 06/28/2004 10:34:01 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall

Always have a backup! If you can burn CDs do that, if not get a USB or Firewire drive to copy your files there. It give some peace of mind knowing that if the darn thing catches fire, you still have you budgets and tax forms and whatnot.

I'm so paranoid though, I wouldn't keep sensitive information on the same machine I use for web browsing. A friend from my wife's work was doing tax work for his accounting business on the same machine that his son used to download music. I couldn't help but cringe at that. Banks are starting to offer online banking and businesses online bill paying and the like. These things are great, but I don't think the average computer user puts much thought into security. With so many hostile programs floating around out in the wild that record keystrokes or take over the machine, people need to be careful. Having been the victim of identity theft and credit fraud (the old fashioned paper kind) it's a big issue with me.

Sorry to go off on a tangent. :)


112 posted on 06/28/2004 10:51:09 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (This dog bite me)

To: Lauren BaRecall
"Yes! I should find men who know about computers! LOL!

You found a date! Just bring your computer box alone to my house. I'll connect it to my server through my Belkin switch and clean it up.

I built my own SCSI-320 server tower with cables running all around to things I also set up and has 9 fans. You can't buy this stuff in a store. It comes by FED-EX and is $.

Some date huh? The last lady for whom I took the covers off got scared back to Santa Clarita:):):) LOL

Bob

113 posted on 06/29/2004 5:31:34 PM PDT by BobS

To: Lauren BaRecall
but I haven't a clue if it's supported by Ghost.

Doesn't matter now - you have both - give it a whirl and see what happens.

114 posted on 06/29/2004 5:33:17 PM PDT by TomServo ("I'm so upset that I'll binge on a Saltine.")

To: snowstorm12

"One day my cd-rom opened up by itself! I almost flipped out, no joke."

I had the same thing happen to me with my cd player. Tried to find out through google search if ANYONE ever had this to happen and what to do about it. But never could find a solution.

Finally couldn't take it anymore (it was opening and shutting by itself over and over), so I just bought a new one and took out the old one. The new one is great -- no problems. What a relief!


115 posted on 06/29/2004 6:59:57 PM PDT by Cedar

To: Liberal Classic
Always have a backup! If you can burn CDs do that, if not get a USB or Firewire drive to copy your files there.

Guess it's time to delete some of my old emails. I have about 46 hundred in there, none of them spam! :oD Guess it's also time to try out the old defragmenter for the first time. BTW, what is disk cleanup? :oD The only maintenance I've ever done, is keep up my subscription to Norton Anti Virus, and run regular scans. (I can hear all the lurkers groaning! LOL!)

I have a CD burner, and I thought of saving my valuable files, as a back up, and also in a clean up effort, but I'm a pretty busy person. It looks like the time for this has arrived, however, and I'll have to figure out how to do it, in a methodical "installment plan."

I'm so paranoid though, I wouldn't keep sensitive information on the same machine I use for web browsing.

A big reason why I won't abandon my dial up in favor of something speedy, is due to security concerns. I don't want to be perpetually connected to the net. More bad stuff can happen that way.

Banks are starting to offer online banking and businesses online bill paying and the like.

I have made some net purchases, and tax e-filing, but rather do a clean up before I give it another go. I don't want to do net banking and bill paying, because I've felt that doing those kinds of transactions are too risky for my tastes.

With so many hostile programs floating around out in the wild that record keystrokes or take over the machine, people need to be careful. Having been the victim of identity theft and credit fraud (the old fashioned paper kind) it's a big issue with me.

I don't even know if I have a keystroke recording program on my computer, although I have had a takeover of my search button. It seems like this stuff has gotten very aggressive fairly recently. I think you have the right idea, and better to be safe than sorry.

Well, now that I'm aware, and embarking on my first clean up project, I plan to keep myself alert. I'm sorry for your experience, and grateful that identity theft never happened to me.

Sorry to go off on a tangent. :)

No, that's fine, and very much to the point of keeping a clean computer. And very good food for thought. :o)

116 posted on 06/29/2004 7:39:55 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: BobS
Just bring your computer box alone to my house.

Hmm. Does he mean to bring only the original shipping carton?

Let me ask you a question, please. A few months ago, I went to this very cool website:

skyandtelescope.com

From the homepage, you can get to the Interactive Sky Chart. I had two of these screens set up, one with my coordinates, and one with the coordinates directly north of me, up in Canada. I was rapidly flipping between the two, making comparisons (because the same constellations look lower in the sky, while in Canada), and all of a sudden I saw a flash. I thought I might have killed the computer!

Well, I didn't, but from then on, I have a really crummy thing going on. My monitor screen looks lighter, and for every line of print, there is a shadow that runs across the screen. The symptoms did not become worse, and I saw that the problem did not involve the monitor, because the color test (that shows right before the monitor shuts off, which is right after the CPU shuts off) looks great.

I figure that any man who has 9 fans could take a stab at this, and make it sound good! :oD

Some date huh?

Sure! Why not? After the computer is cleaned up, you just take the girl out for dinner and a movie. :o)

117 posted on 06/29/2004 8:10:23 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: TomServo

Oh, okay! Guess there's no going back now! LOL!


118 posted on 06/29/2004 8:13:02 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: BobS

Screen lighter = seems kind of washed out.

Thanks for considering my plight.


119 posted on 06/29/2004 8:16:05 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall
Oh, okay! Guess there's no going back now! LOL!

The absolute worst thing that can happen is you have a clean install.

Unless you forget to backup some files you meant to save...heh heh..

120 posted on 06/29/2004 8:47:31 PM PDT by TomServo ("I'm so upset that I'll binge on a Saltine.")

To: TomServo

Say if I want to do the whole thing, right down to the OS. Do I have to know DOS codes in order to reinstall the OS?


121 posted on 06/29/2004 8:50:51 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall
Do I have to know DOS codes in order to reinstall the OS?

Just set your computer to boot off the CD, slap the CD in, follow the instructions (and know what you're doing) and let 'er rip.

Remember - backup all files you want to keep and write down any settings you need to beforehand.(Internet/Email,etc)

Which OS you installing?

122 posted on 06/29/2004 8:55:58 PM PDT by TomServo ("I'm so upset that I'll binge on a Saltine.")

To: B Knotts

I may give it a whirl. I've visited the project website a few times in the last year or so but never got around to trying it out.


123 posted on 06/30/2004 4:15:27 PM PDT by Philip_the_evangelist

To: Lauren BaRecall
"I have a really crummy thing going on. My monitor screen looks lighter, and for every line of print, there is a shadow that runs across the screen. The symptoms did not become worse, and I saw that the problem did not involve the monitor"

It might be your video card. Check the connection between your monitor and video card first. Then turn your computer off and open it up and take the video card out, clean the contacts with an eraser and re-seat it. Turn your computer on with the case off and see if all your fans are working, especially if the fan on the video card is working.

You could get one of those cans of air and blow all the dust and cobwebs out at this time too:)

The 2nd to last thing to do is feel the temperature of the processor on the video card. Use your other hand to touch the metal frame of the box to prevent static!!! If the processor is really hot, get a new card.

The last thing is to reload the video drivers. If that doesn't work, one of the rendering engines in the video processor went bad and you need another card.

All you need is a phillips screwdriver, an adult beverage of your choice, a can of air, a pizza, and maybe a flashlight to explore with:):)

I had a video card go bad once, that's why I buy my own $ parts:)

Some date huh? Sure! Why not? After the computer is cleaned up, you just take the girl out for dinner and a movie. :o)

If it doesn't get too late where we are:):):)

124 posted on 06/30/2004 4:47:07 PM PDT by BobS

To: Lauren BaRecall

Once everything plays well with each other, use the Norton Ghost corporate version to image the system partition(s) to another partition on another drive; and burn it to sequential CDs also. I DON'T want to spend 3 days re-creating my monster:):)


125 posted on 06/30/2004 5:10:45 PM PDT by BobS

To: TomServo
Just set your computer to boot off the CD....

I need that in American English, please. :o)

...(and know what you're doing)....

Oh, okay!

...and let 'er rip.

Oh, I can do that part just fine! Don't know where I'll end up ripping to! LOL!

Which OS you installing?

I have the feeling that if I told you the truth, and said I would be reinstalling my Win98SE OS, you'd only say, "What!? And not take advantage of the opportunity to install XP?!?"

126 posted on 06/30/2004 5:16:04 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall
I need that in American English, please. :o)

When the computer is first posting (booting), you need to get to the BIOS, usually by pressing the delete key while it's booting. Then look for an option that may say 'Boot Sequence'. Select that and then choose to boot off your CD drive. And yes - I'd get off 98SE, unless you don't have the horsepower to drive XP.

127 posted on 06/30/2004 5:19:58 PM PDT by TomServo ("I'm so upset that I'll binge on a Saltine.")

To: BobS
It might be your video card.

So, a part of a video card can be bad? The whole thing isn't bad, because a part of it is still operational? Or else I wouldn't be able to read anything, etc.?

I wonder if I stressed it by flipping back and forth between the screens. Is that possible? Or was it something that could have happened anyway?

Oh, my video card is soooooooo stressed! Maybe a little biofeedback would help?

Check the connection between your monitor and video card first.

1. I can find the video card by following the wires on the back of the monitor.

2. I have to find the fans.

Then turn your computer off and open it up and take the video card out, clean the contacts with an eraser and re-seat it. Turn your computer on with the case off and see if all your fans are working, especially if the fan on the video card is working.

What do I have to unplug, and plug back in, when I do this?

You could get one of those cans of air and blow all the dust and cobwebs out at this time too:)

Can of air. I know what that is - they sell them at Staples. You can probably tell that's something I never tried before! LOL! And I have cats, too. Who love to go back there.

The 2nd to last thing to do is feel the temperature of the processor on the video card. Use your other hand to touch the metal frame of the box to prevent static!!! If the processor is really hot, get a new card.

I'm trying to phrase my next question in such a way as NOT to bring up images of Bill Clinton. That having been said, I can account for only one hand in this part of your instructions. :o)

Oh, the other hand is holding my drink! LOL!

I saw someone open up a CPU, quite a while ago. I remember that he had it on its side some of the time. I saw the big HD, and the motherboard, and I watched him put in some kind of card.

The last thing is to reload the video drivers. If that doesn't work, one of the rendering engines in the video processor went bad and you need another card.

If I have to buy a new video card, where can I get one? And do they come with a disk with the compatible drivers? If I reload the video drivers, do I have to uninstall them first?

All you need is a phillips screwdriver, an adult beverage of your choice, a can of air, a pizza, and maybe a flashlight to explore with:):)

A couple of ice-cold bottles of Bud, a can of air, Pizza - extra thin crust, extra sauce, mushrooms and sausage, a flashlight, a screwdriver, and maybe one of those things on wheels that they use to fix underneath the car....

128 posted on 06/30/2004 6:20:56 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: BobS
Once everything plays well with each other, use the Norton Ghost corporate version to image the system partition(s) to another partition on another drive; and burn it to sequential CDs also.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, the system partitions! Wow, you think of everything!

WHAT did he say?

I think I need a screwdriver, a pizza, a couple of Buds, and to find a guy who'll do this for me. :oD

129 posted on 06/30/2004 6:29:05 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: TomServo
When the computer is first posting (booting), you need to get to the BIOS, usually by pressing the delete key while it's booting.

I haven't a clue as to what that looks like. I think I'd feel a whole lot more comfortable if I could see someone do it first. What is a BIOS? And I take it that I don't need to know DOS code.

As far as speed goes, my computer is a little over 4 years old. I was cutting edge for about one week. :o) It's not even 1 Gig - about a 750, I think.

Whatever I end up doing, and when, you, and the other guys, are giving me a really good education. And I sincerely appreciate it. :o)

130 posted on 06/30/2004 6:41:05 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall
Gee Lauren! I will entertain you here explaining how things work together with a break for beer and pizza and a swim in the pool. I have spare parts if needed. A computer isn't a coffee maker:) It is a highly evolved species of things you plug in a wall:)

The processor chip on the video card has many rendering processes inside which create the image on your monitor. It also has memory chips near it, just like your motherboard.

Just be armed with a can of air. Pull the plug on the box and unscrew the cover. 4-6 screws. Mine has eight. Take the cover off and blow all the dust out so you can peek around. Plug the power plug back in with the cover off. Turn the computer back on and make sure all the little fans are working everywhere, and there isn't a bird's nest preventing air flow:):)

It get's better. Just freep mail me:):)

131 posted on 06/30/2004 7:01:28 PM PDT by BobS

To: Lauren BaRecall
I think I'd feel a whole lot more comfortable if I could see someone do it first.

Click here to get an idea. This may not match your BIOS Screen(s). It's simply an illustrative guide. Check that 4th screenshot down. See where it says 'First Boot Device'? At this point you'd normally highlight that selection and press [ENTER]. You'd then be shown a screen of bootable devices - one of which will be your CD drive. You'd select your CD drive, press [ENTER] and press F10 to save the changes and exit. Forget DOS codes. And stick with 98SE (or buy a new machine and this whole discussion is moot ;-)).

132 posted on 06/30/2004 7:02:28 PM PDT by TomServo ("I'm so upset that I'll binge on a Saltine.")

To: BobS
Just be armed with a can of air.

Heh heh - I take mine outside and use a leaf blower. Serious...:-)

133 posted on 06/30/2004 7:03:48 PM PDT by TomServo ("I'm so upset that I'll binge on a Saltine.")

To: Lauren BaRecall
"Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, the system partitions! Wow, you think of everything!"

I am dual-booting two different operating systems. And have a seperate image from both on a seperate HD and sets of CDs.

In simple terms, I am dating two different women. Their registries don't know about each other. If one woman gets defective, the other will keep me going while I reconstruct another from stored DNA from the first one. If BOTH women find out about each other and destroy my HD, I have a spare SCSI HD that can reproduce the DNA of both women:):)

You should try that with men:):):)

134 posted on 06/30/2004 7:30:35 PM PDT by BobS

To: TomServo

LOL! You ignore it that much?


135 posted on 06/30/2004 7:32:04 PM PDT by BobS

To: BobS

Oh no. It's just every now and then (usually 3-4 months) I take it out for a cleanin'. And when I do, I use a leaf blower. :-) The cans of air are more expensive and less effective than the electricy it takes to run the leaf blower.


136 posted on 06/30/2004 7:41:22 PM PDT by TomServo ("I'm so upset that I'll binge on a Saltine.")

To: BobS
I am dating two different women.

Swine.

If I weren't married - I'd be jealous.

Oh - to hell with it.

I am jealous.

137 posted on 06/30/2004 7:42:44 PM PDT by TomServo ("I'm so upset that I'll binge on a Saltine.")

To: TomServo

I can't do that. I have a wiring job that is very delicate. I have a front panel with lights that tell me the health of all the SCSI HDs, card, temp and soldered wires tie-wrapped neatly all around. SCSI-320. 15K RPM drives and very fast. My sound system needs an upgrade, though. Video runs great!


138 posted on 06/30/2004 7:48:17 PM PDT by BobS

To: TomServo
"I am dating two different women."

I am NOT dating 2 different women. Re-read the description I gave to Lauren about dual-booting. It's as simple as I could get!

139 posted on 06/30/2004 7:50:40 PM PDT by BobS

To: BobS

Jeez Bob - just yanking your chain a little. ;-)


140 posted on 06/30/2004 8:06:35 PM PDT by TomServo ("I'm so upset that I'll binge on a Saltine.")

To: TomServo

Well, I just sent a Freepmail to Lauren, just in case. She doesn't know these things, you know?


141 posted on 06/30/2004 8:12:02 PM PDT by BobS

To: BobS; TomServo

You guys are funny! LOL!

I'll have to read the tech stuff tomorrow, because I promised myself a few hours of sleep.

Bob, you're probably up in Juneau, and have 7 wives in 5 different states! Maybe you're even an ax murderer! But that's ok - I'm safe from you, living not far from the heart of NYC (the Land of REAL Pizza).

Tom, you're a sweetheart, and I bet you love your wife more than life itself. I don't think you're really jealous of Bob, considering what he has to shell out for all that dental care for all his kids (in 5 states). :oD


142 posted on 06/30/2004 8:17:21 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall

I live in Chatsworth, CA. And also must get up at 4:30 AM. I know all about NYC. I was born near there. I won't go back, because I don't need to buy many clothes here:):) I build things that keep the US safe and me in $. Read my mail!


143 posted on 06/30/2004 8:22:52 PM PDT by BobS

To: Lauren BaRecall; backhoe; ShadowAce
A couple of ice-cold bottles of Bud, a can of air, Pizza - extra thin crust, extra sauce, mushrooms and sausage, a flashlight, a screwdriver, and maybe one of those things on wheels that they use to fix underneath the car....

ROFL!!!

You will need to go to the autoparts store for the thing on wheels that they use to fix underneath the car
Computer shops will have difficulty understanding how you plan to use that!!!

I finally found this thread and wanted to point you to (best I have seen yet )an excellent tutorial on cleaning spyware out of the machine...

Removing Spyware

144 posted on 06/30/2004 8:24:14 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (.)

To: BobS

What are you usin' to cool the machine. Fans or water cooled?


145 posted on 07/01/2004 2:43:32 PM PDT by TomServo ("I'm so upset that I'll binge on a Saltine.")

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

This link is cool! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I'm doing a big project for work, and I was hoping to wrap it up this weekend, but I'm hoping to squeeze in some quality time with my computer.

BTW, the thing on wheels is to get under the computer desk, and around to the other side. I have a huge monitor, and a big computer desk, so that baby ain't movin' anywhere! I have to push aside the subwoofer, and crawl under the desk in order to get to the plugs in the back. I know that it sounds complicated, but this is how I, a weak and puny woman, have it all worked out.

You guys take your upper body strength for granted, I think. :oD


146 posted on 07/01/2004 6:16:42 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall
I, a weak and puny woman,????

Well we would have to see pictures before we could believe that....

Hey I am on the network and typing this message to you running on my AMD64 machine, running SUSE 9.1 professional and something called Konquerer .

Seems to have a spell checker built in, boy I need that...

Now I have got to figure out how to download and install Firefox....I really like that Fox!

147 posted on 07/01/2004 6:28:49 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (.)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Well we would have to see pictures before we could believe that....

Vut are you sayink? You tink maybe dat I am strong like ox?LOL!

Is trut to be told I got big strendt of brains, but am puny in physics.

Hey I am on the network and typing this message to you running on my AMD64 machine, running SUSE 9.1 professional and something called Konquerer.

Dis vould be of great interest if only am I able to make sense of it!

Seems to have a spell checker built in, boy I need that...

HA! I have need of dis spell checkink, too!, vellcom to club!

Talk to me about safe mode I see on you link, ya?

148 posted on 07/01/2004 6:44:39 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall
AMD64 is the AMD Clawhammer 64 bit processor, the latest hotest thing, CRAY and many others are building supercomputer clusters with the Big brother, opteron, used to be called the Hammer!!!

Mine is a puny 3000+ runs at 2 Gigahertz.

Now the SUSE 9.1 Professional is a Linux distro, (distro is an abbreviation of distribution .... a packaging of components you see... )

And Konquerer. seems to be a combination browser and file Manager. It is very new to me so I know very little about it.

149 posted on 07/01/2004 6:58:17 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (.)

To: Lauren BaRecall; ShadowAce; backhoe
Talk to me about safe mode I see on you link, ya?

Hmmm.... not sure about that....

Lets ping shadowace...and Backhoe!!!!

150 posted on 07/01/2004 7:02:19 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (.)


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Internet Attack Exploits Microsoft Software Flaws ( Internet Explorer vulnerable )
Reuters ^ | Fri Jun 25, 2004 08:25 PM ET | Duncan Martell

Posted on 06/25/2004 10:41:28 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

click here to read article


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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

That's pretty much amazing!

BTW, I'm looking at your other thread - the one you pinged me to.

I'm getting really pooped, but if I have enough energy, I'll post a horror story over there.

It all started when I opened my local phone bill this morning....


151 posted on 07/01/2004 7:02:36 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall
It all started when I opened my local phone bill this morning....

Don't tell me you got one of those autodialer thingies onto your system?????

You can catch those on the porno sites you know... I don;t have that problem since my machine has been neutered... can't dial anyone...but he is online whenever he powers on....

152 posted on 07/01/2004 7:07:00 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (.)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Hmm.. I really don't use Konqueror except as a file manager. I've heard it's pretty decent at web browsing as well--including tabbed browsing. It's part of the KDE package.

That's really all I know. Sorry.

153 posted on 07/01/2004 7:08:01 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I have never purposely gone into safe mode, but I've seen it come up a couple of times on its own, and I had to figure out how to get out of it.

The webpage you linked said to download all the progams while in safe mode.

I'd like to understand what safe mode is, and whether or not it's really better if I download in safe mode.


154 posted on 07/01/2004 7:09:02 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Don't tell me you got one of those autodialer thingies onto your system?????

Apparently, yes. How does it work?

Thank God it was only one call. To the Solomon Islands no less! The last time any of my family had anything to do with the Solomon Islands, was when my father fought there during WWII!

There must be another way to pick up an auto dialer, because I don't go to porn sites. Really! :oD

155 posted on 07/01/2004 7:16:02 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

BTW, how could something like this happen when I'm already dialed to an ISP?


156 posted on 07/01/2004 7:19:32 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall

Yaaahhh Right.....

Damn, I just nuked a frozen snicker candy bar in my puny microwave in Defrost mode power level 3, and in 2 and half minutes the turntable was all gooyey... yikes something else to clean up, sink is already full of dirty dishes..


157 posted on 07/01/2004 7:22:27 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (.)

To: Lauren BaRecall

Well, the dialer program could just break the connection with the ISP and get dial tone and dial the farout number...
But why the Solomon Islands??

How do you know it was done from your computer????


158 posted on 07/01/2004 7:32:01 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (.)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I've been thinking of the Chocolate Haagen Dasz that's innocently sitting in my freezer....

Ok, I confess! That *might* have been a porn site. There was one time I wanted to see what The Donald's girlfriend looks like. (I was watching The Apprentice, at the time.) I sure *did* see what she looks like! :oD


159 posted on 07/01/2004 7:46:04 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I called up my local phone company, and spoke with a girl who told me that from what she's seen, there have been different parts of the country affected, but now the northeast is being inundated with this problem. She's seen a lot of calls to the Solomon Islands, and one to Cook Island.

She told me that the phone numbers/lines were accessed through the phone customers' computers. I thought she knew what she was talking about, and that she made a lot of sense.


160 posted on 07/01/2004 7:54:39 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I find that a paper plate is the solution to most problems. :o)


161 posted on 07/01/2004 7:56:59 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall

Yes, I use paper plates heavily!

And plastic cups.

Except for my coffee Latte in the morning.... That is a ritual I must have...


162 posted on 07/01/2004 8:00:37 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (.)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Until I bought my microwave, I'd eat Spaghettios right out of the can, with a plastic spoon.

Except for my coffee Latte in the morning.... That is a ritual I must have...

Ahhhhh, to have the luxury of a moment of civilization....

Ok, the ice cream calls...feed the cats, and then to sleep, perchance to dream of a clean computer....

Bon soir. :o)

163 posted on 07/01/2004 8:12:26 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall; Ernest_at_the_Beach
Talk to me about safe mode I see on you link, ya? Hmmm.... not sure about that.... Lets ping shadowace...and Backhoe

You rang?

First of all, I believe you are supposed to run those malware checkers in safe mode, but it shouldn't be vital to download them in safe mode.

When the PC boots, right after the BIOS screen clears, there is a brief moment to hit F8 and bring up the safe mode menu... you may have to try several times. If you observe the screen closely, you should see a line saying something about "strike F8 to enter safe mode or diagnostics." And usually by the time you have comprehended it, it has passed! Keep trying until you get a line by line menu with several choices, safe mode, safe with networking, command prompt, etc.

Safe mode takes forever to load, and the graphics are abysmal, but you should be able to work from there... if you have trouble accessing all the icons, remember the old dead mouse trick of moving through the icons with shift-tab and the arrow keys, alt-F4 to close a window, etc.

164 posted on 07/02/2004 9:19:28 AM PDT by backhoe

To: backhoe; Ernest_at_the_Beach

I am so exhausted! I got out of work early, went home, and installed Norton System Works, scans, rebooting galore, one adware file I can't delete, and I'm downloading spybot, right now.

Too tired to even think about punctuation! LOL! What a lot of work, and strange icons, and noises from my CPU.


165 posted on 07/02/2004 7:33:10 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: backhoe

Thanks , I didn't have a clue, but I didn't mess with PC's till windows was out,....


166 posted on 07/02/2004 7:48:32 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (.New Linux SUSE Pro 9.1 user here.)

To: Lauren BaRecall; backhoe
noises from my CPU.

It's complaining!!

I am running LINUX and I have made no modifications or entered any line commands. Been posting on FreeRepublic all day. The Konqueror browser has some limitations though. No "view partial source" which I have to have. Got to figure out how to get Firefox installed.

167 posted on 07/02/2004 7:52:54 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (.New Linux SUSE Pro 9.1 user here.)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Lauren BaRecall
I am running LINUX and I have made no modifications or entered any line commands. Been posting on FreeRepublic all day. The Konqueror browser has some limitations though. No "view partial source" which I have to have. Got to figure out how to get Firefox installed.

If you do get Firefox installed for Linux, let me know how you did it- that "view partial source" is vital to me.

Lauren BaRecall, sometimes those undeletable files can be gotten rid of in safe mode by using Windows Explorer... not Internet Explorer, but the Explorer that nearly everyone forgets is bundled with the OS... I think it's in "accessories," and you have to go in it and be sure to poke the tab that enables it to show ALL files.

Failing that, boot a DOS disc, locate the bleeding thing, and try deleting or renaming it and then try to delete it.

168 posted on 07/03/2004 1:04:43 AM PDT by backhoe

To: backhoe; Ernest_at_the_Beach
As far as that ever so brief instant when you can hit F8 goes, I saw that there was a time bar ("hit spacebar") associated with Norton's Go Back. That's when you can take the option of disabling Go Back, or booting from another drive.

I saw that I was using too much memory - I can't play Solitaire anymore - so I disabled Go Back to see what would happen. When it was disabled, it automatically deleted the files it was continuously writing along with my every move. That's why my computer made all those sounds! It took TWO HOURS for those files to be cleared out, and I had it going for only ONE DAY. Holy cow!

Anyway, after all of that, I still don't have enough memory to play solitaire.

Tonight, I played with the cookie deleter, and I really got a kick out of viewing all the cookie codes. I enjoyed the power of spying on the spies! LOL! Although it's in code, there's still a lot to see, and some of the cookies are quite long, and record multiple pages in browsing sequence.

I had to disable the cookie deleter, in order to delete the cookies, and that didn't give me sufficient memory in order to play solitaire (which insists it's set for "drag mode"). There must be more things in System Works that uses memory. I never had this problem before.

Any suggestions?
169 posted on 07/06/2004 7:20:29 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: backhoe
Lauren BaRecall, sometimes those undeletable files can be gotten rid of in safe mode by using Windows Explorer... not Internet Explorer, but the Explorer that nearly everyone forgets is bundled with the OS... I think it's in "accessories," and you have to go in it and be sure to poke the tab that enables it to show ALL files.

Hmm. Windows Explorer. I have to take a look at this. I happened to stumble into C:\programs\accessories in an effort to find an answer to my problem of resetting Solitaire to non drag mode (which I never set it to, by the way). I found a file in there that had alternate dial up ISP providers. I'd love to delete the whole file, but I'm not sure if there's anything I really do need.

By the way, I didn't find a folder for the games.

170 posted on 07/06/2004 7:30:32 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall

Norton is a big Hog....

How much memory have you got?


171 posted on 07/06/2004 7:42:48 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (.New Linux SUSE Pro 9.1 user here.)

To: Lauren BaRecall
The games that come with Windows are found under the accessories icon that shows up when you click show Programs ( I think , I am doing this from memory as I don't have Windows up right now).)
172 posted on 07/06/2004 7:46:57 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (.New Linux SUSE Pro 9.1 user here.)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I thought I had 128 RD RAM. Does that sound right? I better look. I also better brush up on my busses! LOL! I never had any memory problem when I had just the Anti Virus program.

I'm glad you confirmed this fact about Norton. I suspected this to be the case when I saw different little signs slide up from the bottom of my desktop. I guess I could disable more stuff, and use on a "as needed" basis. But I'd have to figure out what and how many functions, in order to get back my Solitaire.

I always play a quick game right before I shut down the computer. :o)


173 posted on 07/06/2004 8:10:30 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I'll take a look at that, too. Thanks. :o)

FL_engineer pinged me to that Browser Safety thread, so I have even more to read. I plan to hang around on these threads, because I now have this huge computer project!

Ok, more work tomorrow, or thereabouts....


174 posted on 07/06/2004 8:14:40 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Just give the kid a pack of cigarettes - you know he's only gonna go out and smoke anyway!)

To: Lauren BaRecall

Repinging myself - working on cleaning my C drive now.


175 posted on 07/18/2004 7:33:18 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Whoopi Goldberg: to the FReepers belong the spoils!)


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Dog Gone
Since Mar 26, 1998
 

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Plan would shut down spam-sending computers (maybe yours)
Reuters ^ | June 22, 2004

Posted on 06/22/2004 4:07:02 PM PDT by Dog Gone

WASHINGTON -- Consumers who allow their infected computers to send out millions of "spam" messages could be unplugged from the Internet under a proposal released today by six large e-mail providers.

Internet users also could be limited on the amount of e-mail they send out each day to ensure they haven't become unwitting spammers, under voluntary guidelines proposed to curb unwanted junk e-mail.

The proposal was developed by Time Warner Inc.'s America Online, Yahoo Inc., EarthLink Inc., Microsoft Corp., Comcast Corp. and BT Group Plc.

Spam now accounts for up to 83 percent of all e-mail traffic, and large Internet providers say the problem costs them billions of dollars each year in wasted bandwidth, legal bills and additional customer service.

Most of the recommendations issued by the group seek to plug holes used by spammers to cover their tracks.

Internet companies should make sure that their equipment has been properly secured so spammers can't route their messages through them, the group said.

Security holes in Web-based e-mail forms and redirection services used to monitor online advertising should be plugged, the group said.

But the group also suggested consumers be held accountable if their machines are exploited by spammers.

A spate of viruses and worms over the past year have allowed spammers to route their traffic through personal computers, allowing come-ons for low mortgage rates and herbal Viagra to appear as if they're coming from a trusted friend.

Internet providers should take those machines offline until they can be cleaned up, the group said.

Providers should also limit the number of messages an individual machine can send to 100 per hour or 500 per day to prevent spammers from routing millions of messages through customer machines, the group said.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: SPAM; VIRUSES; WORMS
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How would a consumer know if he or she became an unwitting spammer?
1 posted on 06/22/2004 4:07:07 PM PDT by Dog Gone

To: Dog Gone

When they unplug your computer from the net ;^)


2 posted on 06/22/2004 4:08:26 PM PDT by BullDog108 (Islamists Are Insane! http://bvml.org/webmaster/islam.html)

To: Dog Gone

I'm clean.


3 posted on 06/22/2004 4:10:32 PM PDT by My2Cents (Well.....there you go again.)

To: Dog Gone
How would a consumer know if he or she became an unwitting spammer?

When this appears as your wallpaper.


4 posted on 06/22/2004 4:11:47 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan (If you can read this, thank a teacher....and since it's in English, thank a soldier)

To: Dog Gone

Notably missing: SBC


5 posted on 06/22/2004 4:13:23 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (LWS - Legislating While Stupid. Someone should make this illegal.)

To: ElkGroveDan

Uh-oh


6 posted on 06/22/2004 4:13:57 PM PDT by Dog Gone

To: All

***Internet users also could be limited on the amount of e-mail they send out each day ***


Users will lose and spammers will move on to new tactics.


7 posted on 06/22/2004 4:14:24 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus

To: Dog Gone
I received a nastygram from my provider a couple of weeks ago advising that they had gotten complaints from people who said they had been spammed by address. It was a very helpful and informative letter once you got beyond the threat to discontinue your service it the problem wasn't solved pronto. I went through the full page of info they sent and did everything they suggested. I only found one virus and it wasn't the type that redirects email as far as I could tell. I do not use Outlook as my mail client so I don't have some of the security problems Outlook users do. I have a ftp server on my home machine so that I can access it from anywhere that I have access to the net. That can be a real source of security problems from what they said, but I have a firewall as part of my router and I have a software firewall. I am supposed to contact them when I have solved the problem. One problem was that they provided no specifics whatsoever about the spamming, nothing about the date(s), the product, how many, etc. This is apparently quite a problem for isp's and I can see why they want to clamp down as much as possible, but they could have been a bit more informative and it would have made my job easier. Lord knows I would like to see something cut down on the amount of spam, I get hundreds of messages every day and maybe 10 of them are for real. I have a pretty old email address and a lot of people have had years and years to add my address to their list.
8 posted on 06/22/2004 4:21:02 PM PDT by jwpjr

To: Dog Gone
The proposal was developed by Time Warner Inc.'s America Online, Yahoo Inc., EarthLink Inc., Microsoft Corp., Comcast Corp. and BT Group Plc.

I do hate spam and I'm definitely no expert, so this might sound like I'm pulling crap outta my hat, but . . . honest question . . . I'm just wondering . . . I'm not making any charges . . . Exactly how much of the problem can be traced to security holes in Windows and Outlook Express anyway, if any?

If none, somebody set me straight. It just seems to me like the big guy (Microsoft?), who may or may not deserve much of the blame, is pointing the finger at, say, the poor little old lady who through no fault of her own isn't an IT professional and doesn't know how to properly configure her system to keep spammers out.

9 posted on 06/22/2004 4:21:46 PM PDT by LibWhacker

To: jwpjr
I'm not convinced that spam sent from your email address means that your machine is infected and you're part of the problem. Email addresses of senders get spoofed all the time.

Before the ISPs start punishing their customers, they had better make sure that the problem resides on that home PC, or provide clear instructions to determine whether it's really true and how to fix it.

10 posted on 06/22/2004 4:28:56 PM PDT by Dog Gone

To: LibWhacker
Exactly how much of the problem can be traced to security holes in Windows and Outlook Express anyway, if any?

80% according to at least one study. Windows zombies are a spammers best friend nowoadays because they're readily available, and it doesn't hurt the spammer when a few get shut down. See a recent Register article on this.

Personally, I say good riddance to the suspended hosts. They'll either clean their machines and learn to run Windows Update now and then, or they'll be banned from the Internet. It's not that hard to keep people off your computer, you just have to give it a little thought now and then.
11 posted on 06/22/2004 4:29:34 PM PDT by Arthalion

To: BullDog108
...The big boys don't like the competition from individual providers...

...And, they're scared...%^)))

...Let them sweat...

12 posted on 06/22/2004 4:30:09 PM PDT by gargoyle

Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: LibWhacker

I honestly don't know whether Microsoft is part of the problem or they're just the victim because they're the most obvious target for those who want to prey on as many users as possible.


14 posted on 06/22/2004 4:32:07 PM PDT by Dog Gone

To: Dog Gone

So --- the six largest email spammers want congress to confiscate private property???

MY SHOTGUN IS LOADED! come on!


15 posted on 06/22/2004 4:36:10 PM PDT by steplock (http://www.gohotsprings.com)

To: Dog Gone
I don't "send" spam but a spammer has used my address (and others) from his spam list to fake the "from" address.

This is why legislators who studied law and not technical sciences should do a lot of reading before writing laws on such matters. 20 years ago computer scientists wanted to prohibit the selling of private information but the legislators got heavy funding from advertising lobbyists.

Even in the 1990s legislators saw no harm in spam.

16 posted on 06/22/2004 4:36:29 PM PDT by weegee (Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them. ~~Ronald Reagan)

To: Dog Gone

I use bigvalley.net which is yahoo and they announced that if I have an infected computer, I get no access until it comes up clean.

Makes it tougher to get rid of a virus or ad software.

What you should do is go *WINDOWS TASK MANAGER* and *Process* and copy all your running programs that are going now when it is not infected. Save this somewhere.

Then what you do is if infected, refer to this and go back to the same window and discontinue the bad program running before going on the net. This lets you go on the net if you have a virus and it is blocked. It gives you then a chance to use the net as an aid to clean your computer up.


17 posted on 06/22/2004 4:36:42 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)

To: Dog Gone

Someone is using my url to send spam and I have no idea how to change it.


18 posted on 06/22/2004 4:39:00 PM PDT by mlmr (Tag-less - Tag-free, anti-tag, in-tag-able, without tag, under-tagged, tag-deprived...)
[